Simels and the Eschatots are ineducable, no matter how many times I prove that the American Nazis, themselves, claim their racist theories are based in the writing of Charles Darwin and that all of Nazism is absolutely founded in his theory of natural selection, their eugenics inspired by his claim that race wars and genocides were inevitable and that the slaughters of entire races and groups of people would be beneficial to the survivors - he says it explicitly and unambiguously in The Descent of Man, over and over again - no matter how many times I've put the facts before them, they cannot learn the fact that the post-war plaster St. Charles Darwin of BBC and PBS costume drama, the propaganda which evolutionary scientists insultingly gave us instead of the truth, is a total and complete fabrication. And that the way to know that is to do what Simels and just about no other keeper of that foetid flame does, read their man-god's books and follow up by reading his citations to support his advocacy for the eugenic effects of genocide. Though, in proving that American Nazis, such as the most influential of them, William L. Pierce, base their Nazism on Darwin, all you have to do is prove that they, themselves say that, and they do and have for going on at least a half century.
I'll post the indexes to my posts doing that, though the "Reality Community" won't read them.
Here's the one presenting the evidence up to and including WWII.
Here is a shorter index proving that American Nazis claim the scientific validity of their domestic Nazism in Charles Darwin and contemporary Darwinism. That case is made simpler because you don't have to read German to see what American Nazis of the kind under discussion claim, lots of their claims are online and they aren't coy about making the connection and claiming, like the "reality community" does that since it's called science, that means it has to be true.
Update: I should have mentioned there are a number of posts on the subject which aren't on either of those indices. I should really go back and make a new index. Till then, you can always do a search of the site.
And once again, the phrase "anti-Semitism" appears nowhere in this latest screed.
ReplyDeleteAs the Commies used to say, it is perhaps no accident....
Geesh, Simps, is it news to Duncans Brain Trust that Nazis are anti-semites?
DeleteThere is no doubt, whatsoever, that William L. Pierce based his claims about the desirability of murdering Jews in natural selection BECAUSE HE SAID THAT, HIMSELF, as do other Nazis.
I know you guys aren't nearly as bright as you like to think you are but, really, I don't have to make a list of who the Nazis target every time I mention them. Beginning with the first victims of the industrial phase of their genocide, the disabled.
I'd like you to give me a link to anywhere you've ever noted the Nazis genocide against the disabled, the Roma People, Poles and other Slavs, etc. I don't recall you ever mentioning them, prove you've ever mentioned them in relation to the Nazi genocides.
Remember when the Charlottesville Nazis shouted "The disabled will not replace us! The Roma People will not replace us! The Poles and other Slavs will not replace us!"
DeleteYeah, me neither.
So, you're saying you've got something in common with the Charlottesville Nazis. That they're "meh" on those groups, too.
DeleteAnd I notice you haven't admitted that they were targeted by the Nazis, even given the chance to do that.
The Nazis called it The Final Solution to the Jewish Problem.
ReplyDeleteNot the Final Solution to the Disabled Problem, not the Final Solution to the Roma Problem. The Final Solution to the Jewish Problem.
It was in all the papers, Sparkles. You're not fooling anybody.
So, I'm right? For Simels, the disabled, the Roma, the Poles, the Slavs, etc. their targeting for genocide by the Nazis, "meh!"
DeleteAnd eugenics, based on American eugenics laws and Darwin (in both countries), was the basis for that "solution."
ReplyDeleteSo what is the argument about?
Historical European Christian anti-Semitism. Apparently Darwin caused it.
ReplyDeleteYou illiterate moron, William L. Pierce hated Christians as he also hated Jews, he especially hated Black People, people of other races, etc.
DeleteYou really are a chauvinist for whom the lives of anyone other than the group you identify with are of secondary or even lesser importance, you said so, yourself, when given the chance to prove otherwise. You and Trump have a lot in common. I'll also note that you and William L. Pierce have something in common, too And I don't mean your gender and gender preference.
Oh, yeah, are you on record as noting the Nazi murders and horrific experimentation on gay men as a crime against humanity? Or are you "meh" about that, too? Give me a link because I don't trust anything you say without evidence.
I bet you haven't denounced "Radical Islamic Terrorism" either!
DeleteRemember when the Charlottesville Nazis shouted "The disabled will not replace us! Roma will not replace us! Gays will not replace us!"
DeleteYeah, me neither.
Ah, you've nailed me.
DeleteSee also: Luther, Martin.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/martin-luther-quot-the-jews-and-their-lies-quot
I have put on my waders and looked at a number of American Nazi writings, oddly, I've never run across one who cited Martin Luther to support their racism or anti-Semitism. As I proved in posts you obviously didn't read, a number of them have cited Charles Darwin, quoting him accurately, as supporting their racism and the contention that their proposed genocides, of many groups, including Jews, would be biologically beneficial for the murderers - the essential foundation of Nazism. It's entirely possible that if Charles Darwin hadn't invented natural selection Nazism would never have happened. As I noted, Vernon Kellogg, in the years before Nazism began, said that the Darwinism of the German intelligentsia, which included the officer corps in the German army, was the basis of what is obvious to us, on the other side were proto-Nazi beliefs. As I noted, Eugen Fischer's atrocities in German East Africa, a precursor to Mengele's crimes against humanity were explained, by him, in Darwinian terms.
DeleteOf course, those people were Africans so they fall into your, "meh" category.
As always, your mastery of the common received POV c. 1963 leaves you knowing nothing and incapable of learning anything, even when the evidence is laid out right in front of you.
See: Gardner, Martin. There's a chapter in his FADS AND FALLACIES IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE called apologists for hate that nails, you should pardon the expression, Martin Luther's influential anti-Semitism to the wall.
Delete" Anti-Semitism in Germany, as everyone knows, was much older than the Nazis. Like
the anti-
Semitism of other European countries, it has a long and infamous history reaching back int
o the
early Middle Ages. Protestant readers who associate its origin with Mediev
al Catholicism and the
Inquisition may be surprised to learn that in Germany, the first influential and passi
onate anti-
Semite was Martin Luther. His solution of the German "Jewish problem" was a si
mple one. Drive
them out of Germany. "Country and streets are open to them," he wrote. ". . . They are a heavy
burden like a plague, pestilence, misfortune. . ." For Jews who refuse to leave he recomm
ended,
"that into the hands of the young strong ,Jews and Jewesses be placed flails, axes, mattoc
ks,
travels, distaffs, and spindles, and they be made to earn their daily bread by the sweat
of their
noses as it is put upon the shoulders of the children of Adam." He further suggested, "that the
ir
synagogues or schools be set on fire ... that their houses be broken up and destroyed. . . and they
be put under a roof or stable, like the gypsies . . . in misery and captivity as they incess
antly
lament and complain to God about us."
"It's entirely possible that if Charles Darwin hadn't invented natural selection Nazism would never have happened."
DeleteYou're completely bonkers.
A. Martin Gardner? Really, that's your authority? He was an ass.
DeleteB. I certainly never said that Martin Luther hadn't published anti-Semitic tracts, in fact, if I recall correctly, he published at least three that could be considered that.
C. Show me anywhere that Martin Luther claimed that exterminating Jews was a biological imperative that would be beneficial for the survivors.
D. Most of the real authorities note that Martin Luther was eager to convert Jews to his Lutheran church, had criticized Catholics for alienating Jews and so hindering their conversion, and was frustrated that he couldn't get Jews in large number to convert to Judaism. He wanted Jews to become Lutherans, No Nazi ever wanted Jews to become Nazis or considered Nazis to be Germans - based on a racial theory of the 19th century, well after the death of Martin Luther.
E. If a Jew asked to convert to Lutheranism after Martin Luther wrote his diatribes against Jews, I have no doubt Martin Luther, himself, would have been very happy to welcome them in. I haven't researched it to find out if that happened but I'm quite sure no Nazi ever welcomed a Jew to become a Nazi, something which I don't think even Stephen Miller being Richard Spencer's protege quite matches.
F. Really? Martin Gardner? The man was a dime-store scholar and a pathological liar. Even if you just googled, you could have found a better source to make the same argument. You are a google-based putz.
G. You probably don't know it but to bring up Martin Luther to a Catholic doesn't really cut it.
I own that book, shithead. And I first read it in junior high school. Google is your bailiwick.
DeleteYou probably know it, but to deny European Christian anti-Semitism to a Jew who lost relatives in the Holocaust is offensive.
DeleteI have never denied European Christians have been anti-Semitic and have written on that, before, so you're not talking about me.
DeleteI wonder, though, why, since the very basis of Nazi racial theory is natural selection, you're not offended by denials of Nazi natural selection, you know Darwinism. Something that today's American Nazis also cite as the basis of their scientific racism, including their anti-Semitism. William L. Pierce is a direct influence on the leadership of Nazis today and he was an atheist who hated Christians because, among other things Jesus was a Jew.
I suspect that your denial of the significance of the other victims of the Nazis, as dead as any of the Jews they murdered would offend the relatives of those who were murdered, but that doesn't occur to you because, "meh".
"And I first read it in junior high school."
DeleteI've long suspected that everything you know you learned in jr. high.
You truly are the master of the ad-lib, Sparky.
Delete"I have never denied European Christians have been anti-Semitic"
DeleteIt's your default No True Christian dodge.
As you invented "my" "default No True Christian dodge" it's got nothing to do with anything I said.
DeleteYou would seem to carry a made up Thought Criminal as well as a make believe Charles Darwin. Considering how many sock puppets you've made up over the years, I wonder if you've got any real people rattling around in your make believe reality.
As I've noted before, look at that Bertrand Russell quote in the side bar, it describes the life of the.... uh...."mind" you conduct because your slacker habits leave you no choice. You can only deal with the simplest, most schematic ideas because anything else is too much like work to understand. Really, Simps, you're not too bright.
Get back to me when you're capable of humor, wit, irony or even coherent prose.
Delete“Set fire to their synagogues or schools,” Martin Luther recommended in On the Jews and Their Lies.
ReplyDeleteJewish houses should “be razed and destroyed,” and Jewish “prayer books
and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and
blasphemy are taught, [should] be taken from them.” In addition, “their
rabbis [should] be forbidd
Luther also urged that “safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews,” and that “all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them.” What Jews could do was to have “a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade” put into their hands so “young, strong Jews and Jewesses” could “earn their bread in the sweat of their brow.”
These fierce comments have puzzled and embarrassed Christians who otherwise admire the Reformer. And they have led to charges that Luther was “one of the ‘church fathers’ of anti-Semitism.” More seriously, Luther’s attacks have been seen as paving the way for Hitler.
Did Hitler cite Martin Luther? I'm unaware of it.
DeleteAgain, Stupy, lots of Christians aren't that impressed with Martin Luther, not just Catholics. And lots of Lutherans criticized his anti-Semitism I would guess that there are more Lutherans who reject those writings than there are Darwinists who admit that Darwin essentially produced the scientific argument that comprises Nazism.
Can you produce any time when the Nazis had a Martin Luther room at one of their expos to match the Tacitus Room at the 1936 Convention in Nuremberg? I'd love to know about it if you can find it. Funny, that propaganda movie I posted giving the Nazi argument for their eugenics never used Martin Luther's arguments, they got every one of the ones in the movie straight from Darwin.
Face it, Stupy, that Charles Darwin blow-up doll you're in love with is a lie.
"I certainly never said that Martin Luther had published anti-Semitic tracts"
ReplyDeleteAre you seriously arguing that Luther didn't write a highly influential treatise called "On the Jews and and Their Lies?" Courageous words, Sparky, and unminced.
No, the lie is that I give a flying fuck about Charles Darwin in any other context than when you deny European Christian anti-Semitism.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I can tell how little you care in that if you didn't keep bringing him up I'd probably have stopped writing about him when I finished that first series. You and Freki and Skepsy and Thunderboy....
DeleteYour Charles Darwin is a post-war fraud that no one before the Second World War, including his own children, would never have accepted as the real man. He is a BBC, PBS costume drama, neo-Darwinist fiction. His own son, Leonard Darwin, credited the Darwinism of Wilhelm Schallmeyer and Alfred Ploetz (an actual Nazi) with "turning German thinking in the right direction" in 1939, the very year the Nazis began their exterminations with the German disabled and, with their invasion of Poland in the very same month, began the Einsatzgruppen, mass slaughter of Jews, Communists, Poles and other groups on their liquidation lists.
You know, David Irving claims that Hitler is innocent of the extermination of Jews because he claims there is no documentation of an order to do that from Hitler, but there is no question that he ordered the genocide of the Poles. Of course the Nazis tried to cover up their crimes so a lot of the documentation of that was destroyed. Watch the movie Der Untergang and look at the footage depicting the Nazis destroying documents in advance of the Red Army on Berlin. I know you might believe it if you see it in a movie, otherwise I'd suggest you read some history more current than the Berlin Diary.
Was William Pierce responsible for the murder of six million Jews? I must have missed that.
ReplyDeleteExactly what did I say that that's supposed to be an argument against? Explain yourself, Simps.
DeleteYou really have no idea what irony is. Here's a clue, Sparkles -- it doesn't involve your laundry.
ReplyDeleteWhat bullshit, Simps. You don't have any argument and you can't argue with what I said.
DeleteIrony has nothing to do with anything you said. Stupidity has a lot to do with pretty much everything you do, ignorance more.
Arguing with you, as I have said on numerous occasions, is like debating the merits of three and soup.
ReplyDeleteYou're a non sequitur made flesh. And that's your good point.
You're like a cliche Magic 8-Ball, only I don't know if you've got that many cliches to be one of those.
DeleteYou really have unwittingly taught me a lot about the stupidity of atheist pseudo-liberalism, everything you do is unwitting. When it comes to unwit, you're an unthrift.
I'm not an atheist as you well know. I'm a lapsed agnostic who used to not know, and now doesn't give a shit.
ReplyDeleteWhy you keep repeating that lie is beyond me.
What I know is you're a pathological liar, what I'm sure is that you're an atheist, not out of any kind of conviction or thought but out of the ambient fashion among the pseudo-liberal, pseudo-educated, pseudo-thinkers who are the rump remnant at Duncan's.
DeleteIf you told me you were a man I'd say the chances of that being a lie, based on your propensity to lie is more than 50%.
That you're 12 is more in evidence than that you've got a Y chromosome.
BTW, William Pierce published THE TURNER DIARIES in 1978. Get back to me when you can explain how his Darwinian views in that book influenced the Holocaust during WW II.
DeleteThat's the best you can do? Pretend that was what the argument was about? It gets boring when you just prove that you're a dishonest idiot every time you try to wriggle out of the traps you set.
DeleteYou know, if William L. Pierce had never associated his ideology with Nazism, his own genocidal anti-Semitism and racism would be even more evidence that Charles Darwin's theory inevitably generates genocidal racist eugenics.
I've tried to explain to you how some things happen before other things did and that they can inspire things that happened after that. I've pointed out that you have a real problem with understanding how time works for years. I don't have that deficiency, you've demonstrated that you do.
You're lecturing me about how time works?
DeleteJeebus, Sparky -- you do more projecting than a suburban multiplex.
Yeah, I've seen that come up on the Simple 8-Ball before. About a thousand times.
Delete"more projecting than The Nickelodeon would be a variation. But use that somewhere else, I know where you got it.
Now that I've strained you attention, why don't you forget all about this.
Zod, I barely feel like posting your puppet master's comments, from time to time, I'm not going to post his more vulgar, even stupider repetitions as "Zod".
ReplyDeleteTalking to yourself again. I keep telling you to get help.
DeleteYeah, Simps, you didn't post those two really stupid attempts at using a different persona that I sent to my Spam box. Really. You and "Zod" fill even more space in my Spam file than really stupid ads from people who don't speak idiomatic English.
DeleteIf you seriously believe that I'm Zod, you're even stupider and more bonkers than I previously assumed.
ReplyDeleteYou're the one who claimed you weren't Lubypaulanka, even after I'd caught you at Digby's as is documented in my post from that incident. As I said, you're a really incompetent liar. If NTodd hadn't first caught you at it, I might not have thought to look.
ReplyDeleteSo, there was anti-semitism in Europe (there was) and it led to the "Final Solution"just because.
ReplyDeleteNot because the Nazis explicitly cited American eugenics laws and Darwin, but just because.
Sure, that's what happened.
On my phone, can't link, but article at Daily Beast by Paul Offit would repay your interest.
ReplyDeleteGrant's book did have a great deal of influence in the thinking of Hitler, though by the time he read it he was influenced in that direction by books he had read perviously and by German eugenics, in general. German scientists, the ones who came up with the theories directly and who pushed them to the conclusions that Darwin and Haeckel had published more than a generation before, were convinced of proto-Nazism as early as the 1890s. The developments in German eugenics promotion, from the start in the late 1870s through the Nazi period, including the genocide programs are a product of the idea of natural selection, though they took support from other sources, as well.
DeleteThe link between that book and U.S. eugenics laws was a new one to me. And eye opening.
DeleteIf I get the chance I'll try to trace it in Nazi eugenics literature, though going through that is incredibly depressing. The books of Paul Popenoe, one of the major California eugenicists is cited in the Fischer, Baur, Lenz eugenics text that Hitler was consulting when he wrote Mein Kampf (as I recall a German industrialist had given it to him because he thought it would be useful to him). Paul Popenoe, after the war, recreated himself as a marriage counsellor and an expert on family life, apparently he was promoted by Art Linkletter. One of Popenoes staffers was James Dobson. Considering that Popenoe was entirely frank about his eugenics being founded on Charles Darwin's writing, citing The Descent of Man to make some of his most awful claims, it's clear where he got it from. I'm not sure if Dobson finds it convenient to mention such a connection in his business.
DeleteThe biography of Alfred Ploetz, who went from being in a student eugenics group for studying and discussing natural selection, along with such people a Gerhard Hauptmann and his brother and Charles Proteus Steinmetz to being an increasingly anti-semitic eugenicist and, in the fullness of crime, a Nazi, is telling. a lot of German intellectuals became more racist and extreme with exposure to natural selection, just as Vernon Kellogg noted in 1915-16. He's interesting, himself, in that he was one of America's most prominent biologists who had written about Darwinism, something of a eugenicist, himself but who clearly identified natural selection as the source of the proto-Nazism he wrote about in Headquarters Nights.
The tendency to assume that things are a lot simpler and unchanging than they really were and are pervades the sciency conception of science, oddly, some of the worst violators are history popularizers and the dolts who mistake what they do as history.