Friday, August 23, 2024

Geezer Gossip - This Won't Take A Minute

OK NOW I KNOW you're an old Eschaton regular if you can remember when "Freki" and I used to duke it out regularly.  That was more than twelve years ago!

I had no idea she's persona non grata there anymore,  and you tell me it's over her objections to TransPeople?    I expect I might disagree with her on the issue, figuring People get to define themselves but I'd at least want to know what she actually said.   As I recall one of her good buddies there identified as a shit-eating Aztec goddess.   As for the eejits of Eschaton,  it's essentially a bunch of elderly members of a jr. high clique.  I noted that far more than a dozen years back.  

Now, unless you have something interesting to tell me about something that matters,  you don't need to keep telling me about them.   

Wait?  Is that you "Freki?"  Who else would remember? 

I Only Saw One Saturday Night Live Coneheads Skit

but it's what I thought of when I saw the video of J. D. Vance at the doughnut shop.   If he wasn't so dangerous and so awful I'd almost feel sorry for him, he's clearly not used to human beings.  No wonder he appealed so much to Peter Thiel and Little Donnie.

"Well, it's simply not true" Denis Noble Demolishes The Foundation Of Neo-Darwinism

IF YOU PAID attention to what was in the textbooks and what the teachers taught in biology in high school and college in the past fifty years, and before that, you probably would have learned a lot of things taught as hard scientific facts which turn out to not only be wrong but from very to completely wrong.*  Some of the errors were based on chemistry that was true, in so far as they partially knew it but their conclusions were not only wrong but in many ways, very dangerously wrong.  In one of the talks by James Shapiro I transcribed from the past year, he talked about how the Surgeon-General of the United States in the late 1960s, based on the latest current reigning dogmas concerning the fixed nature of DNA within bacteria, said there was no danger of generating antibiotic immunity in bacteria so there was no danger in, for example, prescribing tetracycline freely,  in reality, putting the usefulness of a very useful antibiotic at risk as bacteria developed resistance to the drug. 

When I heard that I recalled how my doctor during those years did just that, he gave out prescriptions for tetracycline as if they were no more consequential than a box of Good and Plenty you'd buy at the movie theater.  And some of the economic dogmas of market economist idiots (sorry for the tautology) like Milton Friedman seemed to be feeding off of the same then seemingly good but, actually, bad science.  so he advocated overturning huge parts of the regulation of drugs and controlling what got released to the public.  I wouldn't be surprised if some of that fed into the contemporary judicial idiocy that led the increasingly Republican dominated Supreme Court into the disastrous decision to allow direct marketing to potential patients by the drug industry, something which the idiot civil liberties industry figures such as from the ACLU also had a hand in.  If I had the time I'd go back to look at the various amici briefs submitted to the court to see if the dead hand of that wrong science might be visible in the claims made.  

If you paid close attention to more than the surface claims made in biology classes in high school and then kept up with what actual experimental and observational evidence showed in the past sixty years, you'd realize how shocking the most recent science dealing with the central ideology of biology and the alleged sciences and social sciences that parasitize it, still, really is.  How much of what included Neo-Darwinism as its basic ideological assumption has to fall with it.   That's something that even a secular reading of current science forces you to conclude, how much of what my and subsequent generations were taught as hard science - the entirety of sociobiology and evolutionary psychology, among the most publicly influential** - is just plain wrong and its conclusions a misrepresentation of reality.  I will get to some of the other readings possible from it after I give you the next section of the talk Denis Noble gave.

Now I want to come to some proofs that 20th century gene-centric biology - the idea that genes are the blue-print for life, that they, alone can develop into us - is necessarily wrong.  And there are four major dogmas.

First is the Central Dogma of Molecular Biology, I'll explain that in just a moment.  The second is a dogma called The Weismann Barrier, again, I'll explain that in a moment. The third dogma is that DNA can replicate itself "just like a crystal." And the fourth dogma is that DNA is separate from its vehicle, that is the cell that carries it and I'll just go through these very simply.  

The central dogma of molecular biology is, in fact, a very simple chemical fact, that from DNA we make another kind of nucleotide called RNA and that enables our bodies to make proteins.  Proteins are the real driver of activity in living organisms.  Now, that's a simple chemical fact, DNA forms RNA that forms proteins. But that simple chemical fact does not prevent the organism editing and changing its genes.  What the standard biologists will tell you is, well, it does prevent that because you can't go backwards, you can't go from proteins to make DNA.  The point is that you don't need to, the body knows how to control its genes without that being the case.  So, first point, the Central Dogma of Molecular Biology does not prevent organisms changing their DNA when they need to.

The second dogma, the second foundation stone of modern evolutionary biology is the Weismann barrier, this is the idea, introduced over a hundred forty years ago by a geneticist called August Weismann, it's the idea that the egg cells and sperm cells in the reproductive organs are totally isolated from the rest of the body.  So there's no way in which my body learns during its life can be transmitted to the egg and sperm to form the future generation.  Well, I have to tell you that little molecules called "control RNAs," but don't' worry about the technical term, little molecules called control RNAs are shown to communicate body characteristics like whether your metabolism is this way-round or that way-round to the germ cells via tiny little packets of molecular information.  There is no Weismann barrier.  It's not able to prevent transmission  from the body to the egg cell.

CJ: Are you referring to epigenetics here or something else?

DN: Good point. It is to some extent epigenetic.  

So, the third major assumption of standard evolutionary biology is that not only is DNA the source of everything that's needed to create  us, it accurately self-replicates, it doesn't need anything to control that. Well, it's simply not true.  It is true, coming back to the four types of nucleotides [what is generally given as"A,T C and G"], A will attract a T and G will attract a C, that is true and that helps the replication of DNA but the error rate of that is such that there would be hundreds of thousands of errors in the DNA as one of our cells divides to form two new cells.  And what happens is amazing. The cells, themselves, contain the proteins necessary to cut and paste the DNA and to correct all of those errors.  So, the replication of DNA depends upon that ability of the living cell.  And only a living cell can do that.

And the final fundamental dogma is that the replicator, that is DNA is separate from its vehicle which is the cell or, if you like, our bodies.  The fact is since self-replication of DNA is impossible in our genomes the replicator cannot be seen as separate from its vehicle.

So, the correct interpretation of the molecular biological evidence  shows that all of these four fundamental assumptions of modern biology are incorrect.

So, just to summarize where I've got to in this part of the talk:

Living organisms can change their DNA.  And, incidentally, you and I were experiencing exactly that during the pandemic. How else could our immune systems be able to change the DNA coding for what are called immunoglobulins, that's a long technical term, the part of our immune system that grabs the virus and neutralizes it, how is it possible for the immune system to do that?  It's because the immune system, like other systems in our bodies is capable of changing the DNA.  It actually creates millions of new possible shapes of that protein that captures the virus.  So we know that organisms can change their DNA and the Central Dogma clearly does not prevent that and as I said this is precisely what was happening during the pandemic.

Second major point in the summary here is DNA itself is not a self-replicator it needs the living cell to do that.

And the third take-home message from this part of the talk is that body characteristics can be communicated to the germ-line, that is the future eggs and sperm via small particles that transmit from the body to those cells.  The Weismann barrier is not really a barrier.  

Now, why is this all important?


Denis Noble went on to give scientific reasons that's important and, far more importantly, what that will mean for those trying to save the biosphere and life in the future that neither he nor I will live long enough to see much of.  Denis Noble would not seem to be a religious believer, as I have mentioned he takes the step outside of science make the claim that you "don't need God" because the membranous structures of the cell can provide so much of the regulatory function that the old-fashioned naive view of genetics and biology assigned to DNA.

I, though, look at the same science and don't just take the membranous structures of cells as a given, I have to ask where those came from and how those have the abilities they have as parts of living organisms, abilities which no non-living molecular structures would seem to have.  Both Denis Noble and James Shapiro have pointed out that when non-living crystalline structures are made there are large numbers of "errors" in the molecular formation of the forming crystal, things such as, I'd imagine, those chemical inclusions of metallic molecules within diamonds that give them different colors which works for a pretty rock but which would never allow life functions to continue in a living organism unless the crystalline structures making those up were corrected to a stunningly lower percentage of errors. Such a high percentage of errors in that chemical-physical process is incompatible with life processes, which both of them readily point out.   Clearly those couldn't have come from any known properties of inorganic chemistry or even much of organic chemistry, certainly not as features of elemental chemistry as that exists in a natural setting.  So that would have come from somewhere which I doubt reductionist materialism will ever be able to account for.  

I'm fully prepared, considering what is known about life processes and the replication of life, that it has to happen within not only some kind of membrane BUT A COMPLEX, BIOLOGICALLY ACTIVE MEMBRANE that that would have been true for the theoretical first organism of life on Earth or elsewhere in the galaxy or universe - if it is a line of life anything like our own to have ever existed.  I can't find any reason to believe such a complex structure could possibly have just come about through random chance interactions between molecules, even supposedly naturally occurring amino acids, in the presumably very life-hostile atmosphere and surface of the early Earth.  Not in the numbers of molecules it would have taken to form a "very simple" living organism's containing membrane as it just happened to enclose the other complex molecules and structures necessary for "very simple" life to have come about.  The seemingly random chance probability of that happening in the first place and a very high chance against its long-term survival in those conditions is matched with added factors of improbability against its continued metabolism and the incredible improbability of it reproducing the molecular and other structures within its body the correctly dividing into two or more of itself, resealing its containing membranes, correctly, the first and most all of every subsequent time and I think the idea that it just happened by random chance, itself, plummets into irrational faith based on materialism and the gods of materialism.  

It was one of the selling points of the ever more seemingly absurd materialist-reductionist cartoon of how life began that it was assumed to be what we ever more surely know it was not and could not have been, simple in the way that chemists can describe inorganic and non-living chemical bonding.  The plausibility of 18th, 19th, 20th century materialist-atheist-scientism depended and still depends on that unrealistic assumption of simplicity, I'd say that line of the ideological use of such assumed simplicity goes all the way back to the ancient and classical atomists and the ancient atheists who based their claims on that mistaken faith in such simplicity.   Without that simplicity, what they really have is what I've called atheism of the gaps, presumed "simplicity" supplying the gap in what is known.

Though they'd deny what they're doing, today they turn "random chance" from a process of probability mathematics into a creator god of infinitely greater implausibility than the God of Moses, Jacob and Jesus or many of the other names and stories told about God in other traditions.  I find the "God" of the fundamentalists, who I don't believe in, more plausible than the creator god of atheist materialism and I think the morality derived from even that anti-Christian god is superior to that which materialism leads to.  I'd rather take my chances with a lot of the anti-LGBTQ+. old-order anabaptists, especially those of the peace churches over and above the gods of materialism and atheism.  

Though, as I mention at the top of this post, I think even the secular consequences of that ideological abuse of science are dangerous enough so we should all throw the old line into the boneyard of discontinued science I'll also point out that the deadly enemies of this most recent biology include many of the big names in current anti-religious polemics. That presence of some of the most vicious opponents of current biology within science is a good indication of the ideological character of the gene-centric, neo-Darwinist orthodoxy and the actual motives of much of why it is retained as their central ideology.  The online war that Jerry Coyne waged against his University of Chicago colleague James Shapiro include some of the most vicious attacks on science in recent times.  And the same words and phrases were echoed in the sciencey new-atheist blogopshere.  For example, I read any number of scienctist written blog posts deriding and ridiculing "junk DNA" even as Shaprio and others proved that a more up to date and evidenced view of that molecule showed it was nothing like "junk" but was vital in some of the most important workings of the very molecule, itself.  "Junk DNA" figured highly as one of the favorite online arguments against the existence of God as well as championing an already antiquated view of molecular biology.  I think it was in response to one of those that I noted they were arguing for atheism of the gaps, those gaps being in previous ignorance of the function of those long chains of amino-acids.  Only some the atheists who understood any of it from the start got that point, the sci-ranger boys and gals were clueless.  It's remarkable how many of those who were credentialed by colleges and universities only know how to toss around phrases as club slogans without having any real idea of what they mean.

* A couple of years ago a friend told me about her uncle who was still alive and cognitively sharp quite past the age of a hundred who learned scientific racism from the textbooks he had in high school and college before WWII and still believed it because "it's science."  I would assume those might well include the same Civic Biology textbook which featured in the Scopes Trial.  It was one of the most widely used high-school textbooks of the period and it explicitly taught scientific racism and eugenics as science.  The imaginary champions of science who believe Inherit the Wind was a history lesson were unwittingly championing that kind of science.  That is the kind of thing that came back after its temporary discrediting from the scandal of what the Nazis did with that science.  From the 1970s onward as the Darwinist fundamentalism of Sociobiology and evo-psy took hold.  I think the naive view of genetics starting with the generation of Karl Pearson and the last years of Francis Galton inevitably leads to those, especially when tied to the theory of natural selection.  That will be the case until all of that stuff is junked.  In one of the slides that Denis Noble showed it references the 40th anniversary edition of The Selfish Gene, apart from wondering if Dawkins still includes the "first bird to call out" fable which is an epic example of really, really bad scientific lore. I'd bet he does.  But I wonder, far more, if in his God Delusion he still lauds the antisemitic scientific claims of John Hartung which seem to be derived from the overt scientific antisemitism successfully reinserted into science by Kevin MacDonald.   I have written in the past about such antisemitism being inserted into science by such luminaries of Darwinism as Karl Pearson in the run-up to the Nazi's "final solution." 

I might add that in his very last months, E.O. Wilson seems to have admitted there were problems with Sociobiology, which he invented, much to the displeasure of the large number of scientists who had professional interests in his 1970s theory and its progeny, evolutionary psychology.  I haven't looked deeply into why he did that so I don't know what his motives were.  I expect it will take at least two generations of younger biologists dying off before the bad science involved will be quietly pushed to one side.  It will take longer for them to admit that natural selection is an ideologically motivated imaginary "force" of nature which can't be demonstrated to have actually, ever, been a thing.

** It isn't any mere coincidence that Richard Dawkins' famous "selfish gene" idea figures so strongly in what both Denis Noble and James Shaprio have to argue against.  The theory of natural selection which is, actually, what neo-Darwinism was invented to rescue, is the original idea that selfishness is the basis of progress in evolution.  That was realized within the first decade after On The Origin of Species was published.  The "struggle for existence" that figured so highly and explicitly in the theory of natural selection from the time of its invention was intrinsic to the idea, in short.  The struggle for organisms to survive and dominate within their species, the opposite of what secularists know as "altruism" and charity which constitutes the moral basis of many religions.  

That made, in academic-scientific terms, "altruism" an unsolvable problem for Darwinists,  some of whom didn't want to give up the idea that altruism was good and many others who realized that replacing generosity, charity, especially doing for those who are less fortunate or strong or intelligent among us would be a very hard sell to the general public which were largely culturally, at least, Christians.  The latter group dominated in the scientific view of natural selection as they invented eugenics and started trying to talk, first the educated class who were comprised then mostly of the rich, the well-off, the favored by the very unnatural civil law and economic culture, and from that basis, the rest of society to give up the moral content of Christianity, Judaism and, I guess, other religions that didn't much figure into the thinking of that class in the West.  

It wasn't a hard sell to many of the rich and privileged to give up the idea that they had some kind of durable moral obligation to support the lives and even dignity of the least among us, that was the opposite of the difficulty of convincing the rich and powerful that they had that obligation throughout the history of Abrahamic monotheism, late classical and feudal Christianity in the first place.  That was true, in no small part, to the fact that once held by a family great wealth was made very easy for them to hold on to, whatever struggling required could be done through hiring solders and others to carry out the violence or by forcing underlings to do that, to less or no danger to the ones holding that wealth. The structure of civil law figured heavily in that, even during the worst empires and monarchies.  The hierarchies and norms of imperial systems and monarchy and economically and socially stratified republics are designed to do that, among other things.  It's little to no surprise that the aristocracy of Victorian era Britain, America, Prussia, etc. who would never have to actually engage in a struggle to the death found, first, Malthusian style economics and then its child, natural selection, so appealing.  Especially as it not only absolved them from an obligation to share their wealth with the poor and destitute, it made selfishness into a virtue, driving the progress of the human species to ever higher levels,  It's no wonder that the idea appealed to the likes of John Rockefeller.  Darwin explicitly said that in The Descent of Man and so did virtually all others who adopted natural selection even as they hypocritically claimed to not believe that evolution was a progressive force of nature - speaking out of both sides of their mouths is among the most obvious but least recognized characteristics of Darwinian ideology.  Such a population and the emerged upper-middle class that aspired with some hope to that level, largely made up the university and college educated class that were the first ones Darwinism was marketed to.

But the population in general, culturally Christian, Jewish, etc. were a harder sell on the idea that the least among us should be left to suffer and perish in a "struggle for existence."   Even more so that they should be harried out of existence, actively, another immediate conclusion that rose within Darwinism with Darwin's active support.  That remained as a problem, probably especially as the 20th century progressed and larger numbers of the working class and even those from poverty rose academically through public education to go to and flourish academically at colleges and universities.  In the neo-Darwinian synthesis years, that problem was dealt with through mathematical modeling by W. D, Hamilton who, through some typical Darwinian double-speak, claimed, in effect, that altruism was, in fact, a part of that "struggle for existence" (a phrase that was deemphisized within the genteel post WWII generation of academic Darwinists, even as it never stopped being the basis of the theory) in that acts of altruism were made to enable the survival of the genes which the "altruist" shared with those who benefitted from their acts of self-sacrifice, had an imaginary better chance of being propagated in the next generation.  Though the scientific racism which was supported by the theory of natural selection was often a far easier sell even among the working and lower classes.  Racism was a pre-existing mental illness among so many in every class.  The theory of natural selection exacerbated that in many ways.

Hamilton and his disciples seem to forget that for natural selection to work, at all, such "traits" as they imagined-up couldn't be held universally within a species but would have to have been absent from a significant number of the members of that species in order for "nature" to have anything to "select" by.  A universally held "trait" within a species couldn't be the object of natural selection.

So any "genetic altruistic" sacrifice by those holding that imagined genetic trait would have benefited the breeding potential of those which didn't carry that imaginary self-sacrificing gene.  That oversight was the basis of both socio-biology and evolutionary psychology in the next decade even as the idea, itself, is mathematical nonsense because, to repeat that point,  every time one of their imaginary "altruism gene carrying" altruists died it would, actually, have slightly lessened the percentage of those in the species carrying such genes and it would have removed a potential source of that gene from the breeding population of that species.  The more Hamiltonian "altruism" worked, the lower that percentage in the population would have been, actually benefiting those in the species that didn't carry "genetic altruism."  I have presented that point to a number of evo-psy believing people with even that low level of mathematical awareness and not one of them has been able to tell me what is wrong with my critique of the idea.  And there are other things wrong with the most popular fables of it.  I think that, if anything, it would have to conclude that any such "genetic altruism" would, over eons, have been obliterated by natural selection.  

I also, by the way, think it's absurd to base any conclusion about observed behaviors in animals such as ants so far removed from, for example, human beings as being relevant to quite different behaviors among those very distantly related animals with entirely different lives and means of reproduction.  For a start, we have no way of knowing how ants see their own behavior, we could be reading it entirely wrongly and any such "reading" of the observations so as to support any particular theory or ideology is bound to determine what it is claimed is being seen.  To attribute such behavior to genes, the idea of "a gene" being a rather troubled abstraction, itself, is hardly science.  Yet enormous amounts of current putative biology is based on such conjecture removed from any possibility of actual confirmation.  

For a different, detailed critique of "Hamilton's rule" this paper, of which E.O. Wilson is a co-author, states that it cannot make any prediction, whatsoever. 

Note this passage in the summary:

In short, there is a startling discrepancy between the common intuitive understanding of Hamilton’s rule and the derivation of this rule that has been described as exact and general. In some cases, this discrepancy can be seen within a single paper. For example, ref. 7 uses 18 different variations of “Hamilton’s rule correctly predicts…” in reference to HRG, which makes no prediction at all.

But because, as Denis Noble says, Richard Dawkins can write convincingly, which I admit he can on a popular and even a rather mid-brow academic level, that idea sold well to the academics and those in the media and high-school teaching class that the idea dominated even though it had little to no actual evidence and it was, in fact, irrational in many respects.  There were those even within Darwinism who rejected it, Stephen Jay Gould, Richard Lewontin, Ruth Hubbard, . . . but their reasoned arguments were harder to grasp even when such fine writers as they were explained them.  And those criticisms went against the general cultural movements descending into the period of Thatcher and Reagan era economic fantasies - in no small part an aspect of the culture of Darwinism that dominated so much of the imagination of those in the media and within academia and big business.  I read and understood the arguments they made against it, I read the literature that came from their Sociobiology Study Group and realized that sociobiology and its immediate successor, evolutionary psychology were just more of the same eugenics level bad science of which Darwinism has contributed more of than any other scientific ideology that I'm aware of.  

Thursday, August 22, 2024

Anyone who believes anything Simps says without fact checking

is too stupid for me to worry about.   And that includes the rump remnant of geezer grousers of Duncan's idea of an Athenaeum.   I can't even care enough to try to remember the HTML for a digraph to make fun of that anymore.  Even Duncan never really believed it but many at the "brain trust" (they really called it that) do.

Are you the one who used to tell me what was said about that but who stopped?  You don't need to, Simps does that, though I often ignore it because he's so needy for attention.


Goddamn 1970s Era Maine Liberals - And I Used To Be One

got our absurdly easy ballot-access laws in.   Those have been used, repeatedly, by Republican-fascists here and nationally to get play-lefty spoilers and just plain nut cases on the ballot to the benefit of some of the worst Republican-fascists in the country.   The putrid Paul LePage, the vile, racist 38 percent Governor,  Trump before Trump, human bowling-jacket (nod to Charles Pierce) is just one of the products of that 70s era liberal stupidity. 

Now it's gotten the egotistical false prophet Cornel West on the ballot.   I think it's unlikely to benefit Trump and Republican-fascists because Cornel West is too fringy even for our stupidest play-lefties here but we've been burned, over and over again from the firngiest of the fringe before.   Cornel West is someone I once respected and took seriously but that was decades ago.   Anyone who enables Trump in 2024 is someone who I doubt could ever win back my good will and he is just such an enabler.    If someone wants to know if there is an ego bigger than Trump's in American life, West would be in the running.  That his ego is being stroked by his enablement of the most racist figure and campaign and party in modern American history should burn to the ground his entire, previous legacy.

I didn't notice

until this morning that I'd posted an earlier draft of what I posted yesterday, complete with incomplete editing and later additions to the last draft.   I need to come up with a different procedure for writing these things.

Wednesday, August 21, 2024

I'm Wild About A.J. Levine

LAST YEAR I WROTE a piece  pointing out that the translators of the the widely used Greek translations of Jewish scriptures current in the Jewish world around the time of Jesus and the New testament, the Septuagint, translated by presumably Jewish scholars in Alexandria, they probably chose the translation of that famous passage from Isaiah "a virgin will give birth" because they figured that "a sign" would have to be something more noteworthy than a young woman giving birth.  It's a passage that the current common received wisdom claims is an intentional false translation in order to support the Virgin Birth of Jesus. the accusation that it's one of a number of Christian appropriations of Jewish scriptures,  only it was translated that way centuries before Jesus by Jewish scholars.   And that translation was found entirely acceptable to First Century Jews and those both earlier and later because the Greek translation not only was widely used but the legend of how it was translated, identically, by seventy scholars working independently was widely believed by both Jews and, later Christians.   Those who believed that must have seen it as divine favor for the translation as well as the Hebrew original.

When I wrote that  someone asked me if I'd ever read Amy-Jill Levine, a well known Jewish New Testament scholar.  Well, I hadn't and I still haven't read her but I've listened to a number of her lectures and talks on Youtube and she's terrific.   I had been listening to a number of Jewish scholars give their takes on the New Testament and early Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism and the interactions between them and found them to be enormously interesting and helpful in understanding some aspects of what the New Testament means and how post-Temple Judaism developed often in tension with early Christianity even as Jesus, Paul and all of the named disciples and very possibly all of the authors of the New Testament were and considered themselves to be Jews. 

I might go into some of what she says more but I've decided to link to two of her shorter talks and interviews which show she not only is a really fine scholar but that she's got a great sense of humor, the kind that supports a refreshingly practical point of view about religion.

Here's a sort of Ted-Talky short one on the afterlife


Here's one on how you need to understand Jewish practice and belief to understand Jesus and Paul


I love her pluralistic take on things and can say that I won't think about these issues from now on without wondering how she'd see them.   I intend to put her on my to-read list from next year so don't be surprised if she starts showing up here more.   One of the things she says in the second one is something I've pointed out, that far from it being a terrible injustice for Christians to "appropriate" things from the Jewish Scriptures that that practice was rampant within the Jewish Scriptures, themselves,  later Prophets putting their own interpretation on earlier passages from the Torah,  something that A.J. Levine points out is a practice at the very heart of Jewish practice and religion.   I think it would be far better for Christians to understand Christianity as a part of the same faith family as Judaism than to endlessly create dishonest and needless strife where an appreciation and respect for differences in reading things is more helpful and appropriate. 

Monday, August 19, 2024

Is Darwinism, Itself What Has Been Killed Off: Denis Noble And Curt Jaimungal 2

IN THE LONGER version of the multi-part podcast from Curt Jaimungal with Denis Noble from which I transcribed a passage last week, Denis Noble gave a half hour or so presentation that obliterates the neo-Darwinian synthesis which is the absolutely dominant ideology within biology and from there extends through other would-be sciences and is vastly influential in societies, governments and legal systems to such disastrous results for equality and democracy and even life on earth.  

I will say that it is inspiring and no-end of impressive that someone as old as Denis Noble, fast closing in on ninety, is so much on the cutting edge of current science.  How much of what we were taught more than fifty years ago he's had to change his mind about as new experimental evidence has been published in that period, how few of those in even the next generation of biologists have been able to make the changes to what they believe and assert as knowledge.  I did well in my biology classes in high school and in college but it's impressive to me how much of what I was taught then has been overturned.  I think that residual "knowledge" among my age cohort and those even far younger trained in that antiquated, hegemonic ideology of biology is still currently governing and influential in the world, much of it to very bad consequences.  I think his knowledge of computers mixed with his study of physiology may have kept him much fresher than someone like Richard Dawkins who spends most of his time with scribbling words and not on any kind of scientific activity.

I've decided to transcribe his short summary in which he does that, first because I believe it's true and  also because I think in doing that Denis Noble may have come up with a crucial refutation of the other half of the neo-Darwinian synthesis, Darwinism.  Though I don't think that is something he was planning on doing.

This will  take at least two posts but I'll start out with the basis of Noble's demolition of the reigning ideology within biology.

How did the genome become described as the Book of Life, creating us "body and mind" as Richard Dawkins' would say in his book The Selfish Gene?  Because if that were so the conditional logic of life would have to be found in the genome. But it's not there.

You see, I'm a computer programmer amongst other things because the way I do systems biology is to model cells, tissues and organs.  And I know as a computer programmer that if you look for where all of those conditional expressions are "if this," "then that," "else," "something else," if you look for all of those control routines that computer programmers are very familiar with you won't find them in the genome. 

Now, there are switches in genomes.  Every sequence of DNA that is a gene has another bit of DNA which is its switch.  But those switches are controlled by other physiological processes not by the genome itself.  So, I asked the question, where are life's control routines?  Well, they're in our cells. Because our cells - this is a figure showing a complicated diagram of a cell, you don't need to understand the details of the diagram.  What you can see, though  is that it's absolutely packed with structure.  And that structure is formed of what we call fatty membranes, lipid membranes with protein channels in them.  And those routines that control the genome depend on those protein channels in the lipid membranes. Those are our conditional on-off decision processes and they're sensitive to chemical and electrical processes that we experience in life. Without those membrane processes, there could not be choice between various behavioral options.  And, yet, choice is an essential element in any theory of the ability to be either selfish or cooperative.  Moreover, all of our nerve cells have these controllable on-off switches, so do all the other cells. 

But now I come to something that may surprise you, THERE ARE NO GENES CODING FOR THOSE MEMBRANES. We inherit all of those membrane structures from the egg-cell of our mother.  Every single one of us depends on that inheritance, there are no genes controlling and forming membranes.

CJ:  Sir, before you move on do you mind briefly expanding on how membranes come only from the mother and not the genome?

DN:  The important thing about the membranes in our cells is that there are no genes coding for membranes. And yet all of those membrane structures are inherited in the egg cells of our mother.  You see, when a sperm with its DNA enters an egg cell, it not only enters an egg cell to fuse its DNA with the DNA from your mother but it also enters a complete cell from the mother.  That is the egg cell.  And that contains, just as all other cells in our bodies do, all the membranous structures that get inherited automatically with the egg cell. So, when, for example, a couple of years ago Richard Dawkins told me, Denis, we can keep your DNA for ten thousand years and in ten thousand years we'd be able to recreate you.  I said, no you won't, Richard, and he said, well, why not?  I said, where will you find the egg cell from my mother as it was in 1936 when I was born?   You see, there's no way we can avoid the fact that we inherit the membranous structures and those membranous structures are where all the control of the genome lies.     

Now, I want to come to some simple proofs that 20th century gene-centric biology, the idea that genes are the blueprint for life, that they alone can develop into being us, is necessarily wrong.


He doesn't go into it here but there is a basic change in the conception of biological inheritance that undercuts the neo-Darwinian conception of the inheritance of "traits" including conclusive experimental evidence which Denis Noble presented in another of his lectures which I linked to seven years ago, which shows that there is an influence of the egg-cell's structures on the transmission of anatomical structure.  In an experiment in which the entire DNA of an egg cell of one species of fish was replaced with the DNA of another species of fish, the rare, living organism that resulted had a number of vertebrae larger than one species but smaller than the other and was clearly not anatomically the member of the species which the DNA was taken from. 

In thinking more about what I transcribed and posted the other day I remembered a crucial point made by the biologist H. Allen Orr in refuting some of the late Daniel Dennett's rather stupid claim that natural selection also reigned supreme outside of biology, making it a supreme law of nature, that natural selection cannot work without strict particulate inheritance of traits being its basis.  That "blended inheritance" such as would come from any Lamarckian theory of inheritance of acquired traits would undermine the basis of natural selection. 

This substrate neutrality argument is supremely important to Dennett. It—and nothing else—explains why selection can be lifted from its historical base in biology. It is what makes Darwinism so dangerous. But Dennett slips here. While it is true that many different kinds of substrate can be selected, it is simply not true that Darwinism works with any substrate, no matter what. Indeed Darwinism can’t even explain old-fashioned biological evolution if the hereditary substrate doesn’t behave just right. Evolution would quickly grind to a halt, for instance, if inheritance were blending, not particulate. With blending inheritance, the genetic material from two parents seamlessly blends together like different colored paints. With particulate Mendelian inheritance, genes from Mom and Dad remain forever distinct in Junior. This substrate problem was so acute that turn-of-the-century biologists—all fans of blending inheritance—concluded that Darwinism just can’t work. Modem evolutionary genetics was born in 1930 when Sir Ronald Fisher [a key co-inventor of the neo-Darwinian synthesis] cracked this problem: Population genetics shows that particulate Mendelian inheritance saves the day. It is just the kind of substrate needed for evolution by natural selection to work.

What, then, about Dennett’s memes—all those “tunes, ideas, catch-phrases, clothes-fashions, ways of  making pots or of building arches.” Do they show particulate or blending inheritance? Do street fashion and high fashion segregate like good genes, or do they first mix before replicating in magazines or  storefronts? Does postmodern architecture reflect a blending of the modernist and classical or the inheritance of distinct LeCorbusier and Vitruvius genes? I do not know the answers to these questions. And neither does Dennett. And neither does anyone else.

But it’s worse than this. As Dennett reluctantly admits, memes and genes differ in other fundamental ways. Species, once isolated, almost never exchange genes,
[something which Noble, Shapiro, et al disprove, one of the reasons for declaring the neo-Darwinian synthesis dead] while exchange between long-isolated cultures is immensely important in the history of ideas. Moreover, new ideas—but not genes—are produced by a sort of directed mutation. Newton did not uncover the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus by conceiving millions of random ideas. In addition, the fitness of memes is strangely  tautological. While we can often point to ecological reasons why certain genes are fitter than others, a meme is deemed “fit” only because it is common. (“Elvis is alive” is certainly a fit meme, but it is neither true nor helpful. It is merely popular.) Last, Dennett confesses that memes often show a Lamarckian, not Darwinian, style of evolution, in that acquired traits get passed along.

Despite Dennett’s assurance, then, that “concepts from population genetics transfer quite smoothly”  to “population memetics,” it is far from clear that Darwinism can account for the percolation of ideas, styles, and songs through culture. In fact, there is a basic problem with any such claim—we are very ignorant of how humans hold ideas in their heads and of how the ideas in your head influence the ideas in my head. So how can we possibly conclude that the process “must be” Darwinian? As Searle  emphasizes, it is this ignorance of how things actually work that makes the pretensions of these wild theories possible: “Such claims live in the holes of our knowledge.”


I agreed with Orr when I read that because it made sense to me.  I am not that familiar with the literature of the several crises that natural selection passed through in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, first from the challenge of August Weissmann whose claims about the inability of the organism and environment to alter the "germ line" became the basis of the neo-Darwinian synthesis, one of those things which Denis Noble and James Shapiro obliterates with the far more founded experimental and observational evidence they present.  I agreed with Orr because I could see his point, that Darwinism which is based on the inheritance of "traits" and the "selection" of nature favoring some traits over others as the driving force in the evolution of species, could not work without the inheritance of discrete "traits."  A number of times here I noted that there was no such thing as a "trait" that existed outside of an organism which would exhibit many other "traits" which would be hardly uniform in appearing with each other across any species.  I came to the conclusion that "traits" were, by and large, an artificial categorization and that there would be no possibility of coming to any kind of conclusion that "nature" selected organisms to die younger or leave fewer descendants on the basis of those "traits" that Darwin et al understood as the raw material of evolution.  My skepticism about those discrete particles to be worked on by "nature," "traits," preceded any knowledge I had of the work of recent biologists disproving the "DNA" hegemony of naive genetics.  But I haven't combined the two ideas until right now.   In the terms that H. Allen Orr and Daniel Dennett were talking about in the 1990s, anyone who sees the child of two parents would know that nothing about them could lead to the whole child being seen as a selection of discrete packets from one or the other parent, though individual aspects of their anatomy or physiology might be TALKED ABOUT as if that were the case.   It is a matter of the most extreme irony that anyone within science could have fallen for that inherent limitation of language as the supreme determinant of "biological destiny."   But it has long appeared to me that is exactly what has happened within science.

I would love to have someone explain to me how natural selection could be real if that were not the case because I can't see how it could happen except on the level of individual organisms dying if their package of "traits" was either incompatible with survival or reproduction but I don't see how that can drive change in a species as a whole.  The persistence of some extremely disadvantageous traits in species (fatally disadvantageous in some circumstances and not in others) would seem to support that point.  I knew, as apparently Orr may have forgotten, that not only Charles Darwin but his foremost disciples, apart from August Weismann and his disciples, believed in Lamarckian inheritance of traits.  Probably none of them more so than his most illustrious continental disciple, Ernst Haeckel, who declared late in life that not only had he and Darwin agreed on the inheritance of acquired characteristics (something which I know Noble and some of the other renegade biologists on the cutting edge of these issues is aware of) but that to not accept them was as unscientific as believing in the Scriptural story of creation. 

Before understanding this better I would need to go look at the controversies surrounding the adoption of the Weissmann ideology which proved to be so compatible and persuasive under the naive, early view of genetics - I'd like to know more about both the adopters of that and their opponents as well as those who motivated the ideological inventors of the neo-Darwinian synthesis were opposed by. 

If I could I'd like to ask Noble's colleague James Shaprio if that was included in his remark that there is no "two word" description of how evolution happened.  I am certain he expected the first such two words his informed audience would think of are "natural selection," I doubt that the first one that would come to mind would have been "genetic drift," or even "punctuated equilibrium." 

I'm hoping to be able to look more into the dependence of natural selection on the kind of inheritance that is overturned in this recent science but which will probably rule the teaching and writing of biology for far longer than I'm alive (progress in science is measured in the deaths of the old-school, not in the publication of experimental research). 

It wouldn't surprise me if Charles Darwin and his Lamarckian colleagues during his lifetime were unable to see the problem for his theory that Lamarckian inheritance would cause because I don't think they were especially philosophically astute.  They didn't see the problems with using the entirely artificial model of animal husbandry and the development of agricultural strains to stand in for what they claimed happened without intelligent design and without teleology, both of which are vital to animal husbandry and crop selection.  Nor with using the crudest and most obviously ideological and self-interested theories of economics as a model of the same thing.  I have pointed out that for all his ideological liking of the materialism of natural selection, Karl Marx had the philosophical chops to understand what Darwin had done in that regard.

But I think this new research may well kill off more than Denis Noble realizes it will.  I think the world will be a lot better off if Darwinism dies and the scientific study of evolution continues without that overriding ideological framing.  A framing which has had the most disastrous consequences within the lives of the oldest among us and still does.  Darwinism is behind much, if not most of the worst of the academic and popular claims made today.  It was behind the "Darwinian economcs" that led both the United States under Trump and the so-called social democrats of Sweden to adopt deadly and stupid lassaiez-faire policies during the Covid-19 pandemic as well as the white-supremacist theories that congeal in shit like the 2025 Project and its putrid theorists.  Scientific racism and eugenics were part of Darwinism starting with Charles Darwin and his most devoted disciples through the hey-day of eugenics and scientific genocide and extending up through the ultra-Darwinism of evolutionary psychology.  Both the scientific antisemitism that Kevin MacDonald successfully reinserted into late 20th century "science" and the racist economics of The Bell Curve are a continuing and dangerous manifestation of Darwinism.  It is one of the supreme ironies of our lived experience that even the foremost and most rabid of enemies of evolution and Charles Darwin are thoroughly in league with that aspect of his evolutionary theory which reigns in hegemonic orthodoxy.  The nexis of that is in the inegalitarian economics that Darwin based his theory on. But, then, little of it has made any sense when reviewed with determined honesty. 

I think one of the most important things which this new research which reduces the DNA-centric view of life is that increasing the importance of our non-genetic inheritance from the long, long line of mothers who contribute all of the cellular basis of life has to force a more egalitarian view of life than the clearly patriarchal view of it that reigns now.  Finding out that most of our inheritance comes from the female in reproduction, half of the genetic inheritance plus the entirety of the controlling cellular structure, can hardly have any other consequence than that, I'd think.  No wonder so many of the boys are in a tizzy over it.

P.S. I'll add that I can't fully trust anyone who could contemplate the situation of an ant which has been displaced  from the possibility of finding its way back to the nest, to wander looking for it until they die alone without feeling pity for the poor creature. 

 

Friday, August 16, 2024

I'd Really Rather Go Over Somethign That Pushes The Envelope Than Go Over Things I Answered Decades Ago

I'M SURE DENIS NOBLE would probably not agree with the use to which I will put something he said in an extremely interesting interview he gave to Curt Jaimungal, a scientific podcaster earlier this year but I can't see how my use of it outside of science is wrong.  Science isn't a self-contained activity anymore than history or any other intellectual activity is.  I think it's entirely legitimate for us to listen to what scientists say and draw inferences from it that about things which could not be properly a part of science.  I don't think there's anything illegitimate in what I'm about to do.  I'm as sure of that as I know that I disagree with Denis Noble about natural selection. 

At almost the one hour mark in the video after the host asked about the relationship of holism and the molecular reductionism of neo-Darwinism (Denis Noble is, as I stated the other day, a Darwinist though he has declared the neo-Darwinist synthesis of the mid-20th century to be dead) he made some very interesting points which are relevant to one of the issues in science I've gone over a number of times, the extraordinarily improbable chance of a cell's containing membrane to have come about and come to contain the necessary molecules for life to happen, just happening by random chance in nature.

My somewhat informal transcription of the video leaves out something said by the man conducting the interview which I've noted below.  I won't break into it.  At about 59:25, Denis Noble says

D.N. Let me also say something about holeism.   I know the neo-Darwinists in particular will dismiss me as completely off my head, when I talk about holism. they will think it's all terribly vague.  Actually it's a mathematical necessity.  And this may surprise people, about, let me see, it's 2016, so it's about eight years ago I published a book called "Dance To The Tune Of Life" . . . But I published a book subtitled "Biological Relativity."  . . . Biological relativity is the idea that there is no privileged level of causation within a biological system.  


Now, that is a mathematical necessity for the following reasons.  And I can illustrate it best by how I modeled the heartbeat, oh, over sixty years ago when I was a research student.  I was looking at ion channels in the heart cells,. characterizing those so we could fit equations to characterize their physical properties.  And then you could work out how that influences the overall electrical potential in the heart cell because the heart rhythm is an electrical process.  The voltage on the cell literally goes up and down like that [he makes a hand gesture going up and down].  Now, what I showed there was that you could not explain the rhythm from the molecular elements alone.  If you take those proteins and you put them in a solution with no membrane around them,. in other words, not in a cell, they will not oscillate.  There is no rhythm.  If, therefore, you remove the cell membrane and its electrical potential it doesn't work.  Incidentally, that's also true of mitochondria, our energy factories in our bodies.  If you remove the electrical potential across the membranes the system no longer works. So that's not, itself, a new discovery.  

Now, then, what I came up with is a very simple point, you can fit differential equations, sorry to be technical for a moment.

At this point the host interrupted to tell Denis Noble that he and his typical podcast audience were able to handle the technical content he was about to give. To which Noble said he was delighted.

The point is very simple.  However many details you put into the equations, or the differential equations and the functions used in those equations, you need the boundary conditions.  Otherwise there's no solution to those equations.  Every mathematician knows that.  Where do those boundary conditions come from?   


Well, in a sense the word gives it away, doesn't it.  In the case of a cell it's what the membranes constrain the molecules to do.  Those are the boundary conditions.  

So, a holistic view is simply the enumeration of the boundary conditions in a differential equation model.  So, that's why I call it a mathematical necessity.  And I think that your listeners who would understand the mathematics here, will readily understand when I say that there's no solution to a set of differential equations without the boundary conditions being put in.  Those are the influence from the higher levels of organization.  Because it is those higher levels of organization that constrain what the molecules themselves are doing.

Think of how life must have emerged long ago, in, we don't know exactly where - perhaps in the minute fissures and cracks in thermal vents - who knows?   But until the living system, the networks of interactions which were forming autocatalytic sets, meaning chemical reactions that could continue indefinitely,  until they were enclosed within membranes they would have just dispersed.  So, somehow or another, that constraint, the forming of a membrane around a catalytic set would have been a key element in any form of evolution of what we call life.  So, right from the very beginning the boundary conditions by the structure in which the molecules are to be found are a critical element in determining how they behave.  And so there's nothing terribly surprising in that. The principle of biological relativity is simply that you will always need the boundary conditions as well as the differential equations.  
 

C.J. So, that's extremely interesting, are you making an analogy between the evolution laws and reductionism and the boundary conditions and holism?

D.N. I am saying the boundary conditions are what give the system its whole, yes, that's right.  If what you are referring to as the whole is the structure of the system, then it is that structure that creates the boundary condition.  Cells are packed with structures that do that.  The molecules are not free to move easily from one compartment to another. They're restricted to various compartments.  That is, itself a structural imposition of constraint on the molecules involved.  All I'm saying is all molecules in living systems are constrained in the same kind of ways.  So, yes, if you want to say that holism is the existence of boundary conditions from structure, then I think that's absolutely right.  But, then, you've got to look at the whole to see the structure.

None of it works without a containing membrane and the containing membrane of any living, reproducing organism is extremely complex, it may well have been the most complex structure BEFORE THERE WAS ANY LIVING ORGANISM CONTAINED BY IT.  It, itself would have to have been a part of the whole structure or there would never have been any life.

It was way back in the days that I was enjoying getting into brawls with materialists on the Scienceblogs that I first brought up the problem of the containing membrane that would have had to contain the theoretical first organism of life on Earth which I am fully prepared to believe in though I hold there will never be a way for us to know about live that far back or to have any real idea of what it was like.  I described the necessity of the membrane of the first organism in terms less explicit and detailed than what Denis Noble says though he leaves out the extraordinarily hard to comprehend matter of that first organism dividing successfully, rupturing its membrane and resealing itself, enclosing the internal molecular structures that would result in two living organisms instead of one and a host of other incredibly complex actions. the extreme improbability of which lead me to believe that that could only happen as a result of intelligent intent not found within the organism, itself.  I know that Denis Noble and his colleagues doing some of the most important and fascinating research into these areas of cellular physiology reasonably and probably correctly attribute far mor in the way of intelligent action to individual cells as they can observe them, both as individual organisms and, far more elaborately, as parts of multi-cellular organisms but surely, as Denis Noble says and implies throughout this interview and his talks, that individual molecules not contained within cell membranes and within living organisms exhibit no such intelligence, it could not have been there before there was a living cell to organize that molecular behavior.  

I do think there is an artificial boundary at the same place in physical reality which prevents science from taking that step to considering the possibility of the Creator of life being part of that but I don't think there is anything wrong, at all, with someone taking that step outside of science.  It makes entirely more sense to me than the materialist-atheist-scientistic claims that a mechanistic view of the start of life is a fact and that that removes the necessity of God from any respectable discussion.  They can't even sustain their model within science, as Denis Noble points out at the beginning of the interview, the four basic assumptions of the latest attempt to come up with a reductionist description of evolution have all fallen to recent scientific research.  I don't think trying to make a holistic model of that will be either successful or widely convincing.  They'll have to overcome the materialist-atheist reductionist fever dream that they've put the last nail in the coffin of God.  I do agree with him that Cartesian dualism got it wrong just as those who figure the Creator of the universe, somehow, had nothing to do with the physical creation God created.  The Cartesian-scientific concept of that in terms of humanly created machines was incredibly naive no matter what it motivated in the further effort to come up with such means of controlling stuff and forces.  People are so ready to forget that their metaphors are just metaphors and not real think the mistaken philosophical imaginings of those who favored that ideology has had little to nothing to do with the actual success of science and technology, getting things we wanted and which would achieve our intentions has more to do with that, which accounts for why it is also destroying us and life on Earth.  

Update:  Simps, you really want to accuse me of "candor" in responding to you?   

1 : unreserved, honest, or sincere expression : forthrightness
the candor with which he acknowledged a weakness in his own case—
Aldous Huxley
2 : freedom from prejudice or malice : fairness
… a heavy accusation … from a gentleman of your talents, liberality, and candor.—
Noah Webster

Merriam Webster Online

Not only do you not know how to read, you don't know what words mean.

Wednesday, August 14, 2024

Dave Holland Quintet - How's Never

 


Dave Holland - bass
Robin Eubanks - trombone
Chris Potter - saxophone
Steve Nelson - vibraphone
Nate Smith - drums
 

It's All A Matter Of What You Choose To Believe No Matter How Much You Pretend It Isn't

Note:  I wrote this piece a couple of days ago but haven't been able to post it until today.

IT'S A BIT of a coincidence that I'm answering a bit of old snark concerning something I wrote a while back, today because it's the same day that I have decided that one of those online atheists I recently respected has feet of clay.  Sabine Hossenfelder's Youtube posted yesterday pushed her climate-change denial, which she addressed in terms of her loss of respect for scientists and, I guess, science.  THAT was the issue that led me to conclude she, herself, is what she criticizes, a scientist who abandons scientific methodology and practice.  Though it was her typical materialist-atheist-scientistically ignorant citation of the scientific research into parapsychology that I addressed in my comment at Youtube.  

It is clear from Hossenfelder's summary dismissal of decades of some of the most methodologically sound and rigorous of published, reviewed and re-reviewed research into forbidden topics that she has never read the literature of that branch of science but has relied on the entirely ideological misrepresentations of it.  That is typical of what she criticizes among scientists who violate the very basis of science for non-scientific, ideological reasons.  It is clear from, especially the lowest of so-called scientists who dismiss that science, in psychology, as well as those in the would-be queen of the sciences, physics, that those who summarily dismiss the published research have never read or seriously considered the long history of rigorous experimental success in demonstrating a list of parapsychological phenomena including those Hossenfelder listed in her summary dismissal of that science.  My thinking is if she can do that so readily, why should I believe her summary dismissal of the more than half a century of scientists publishing predictions of climate change which all of us experience nearly every day.  I was talking to my brother just last month and he was telling me of sitting as a student in the library at the University of Maine at Orono reading a paper that predicted that within a half a century Maine's climate would be approaching that of Virginia's if measures to curb carbon pollution in the atmosphere weren't taken.  Well, that prediction is obviously true in our record-breaking heat of this summer, the year after year of entirely unprecedented weather in Northern New England and the effects it's having on our climate and our gardening.  

But that isn't what I was going to write about until I listened to Hossenfelder's anti-climate-change diatribe, that was another bit of snark regarding the Resurrection of Jesus which I mentioned in a post I did a while back.  First, I capitalize Resurrection because it is a singular event in the history of humanity and life on Earth of the highest religious significance, if you don't like that I can't help you being unhappy about it but I'm not going back on that.  Live with it.

In his book, Living Jesus, in the first chapter in which Luke Timothy Johnson deals with both the question of in what sense Jesus is LIVING and in what sense JESUS is living, after the Resurrection, he says this:

Luke's empty tomb account (24:1-8) is a remarkably complex composition, especially when compared to its parallels in Mark and Matthew.  In Luke, we find no statement concerning a future appearance.  Instead, the women visiting the tomb are told that they are mistaken in their quest.  "Why do you seek the Living One among the dead?" (24:5).  It is clear from this response that Jesus' body is no longer where it had been, but this absence is explained on the basis of his being "the Living One," who cannot be constrained even by death.  The women, however, are given no immediate vision of Jesus as alive.  They are told to "remember" the words he had spoken in his past life concerning his death and resurrection (24:6).  His "absence" then, is pregnant.  The tomb is not entirely empty, Jesus' past life is over, yet it persists in the memory of those who will shortly come to understand that he truly is "the Living One,"  and their every memory of his past will be shaped by that growing realization of who he truly was all along.  

The appearances in Luke 24:15-49 are obviously a node not of Jesus' absence but of his presence to his followers.  He moves about him as he had before - yet, as we have seen, not really as before.  Jesus is not present in the way he had been when he walked and talked with them in Galilee.  His presence to them now is both more powerful and more allusive, more dramatic and more mediated.  Though he is "really" present in his body, that body has a transfigured quality that enables him to be present in different places to different people (24:31-54.)  

I'll back up to say that in the early days of my writing online, when I was reacting to the politically stupid and counter-productive new-atheist fad of the 00's that I was honest in saying I didn't understand what the Resurrection was supposed to be but I thought that those who reported their experience likely had experienced something they took to mean that Jesus had risen from death.  Thinking of something like that as a problem to be understood instead of a mystery to be thought over is a bad habit of thought.  Much of life is such an insoluble mystery but that doesn't make it any less real. Back then I was still under the influence of the historical-critical writer John Dominic Crossan's and others' books which had been the beginning of my late-in-life conversion to the Christianity.   I'd only been culturally part of before my long period of agnosticism.  The habit of agnosticism is a frequently cowardly decision to remain forever in a suspended state of non-decision instead of choosing to believe or disbelieve.  I'll hand it to the new atheists, their dishonesty led to my decision to stop being a coward in these matters.

I will repeat something that set off the snarky comment, that it was the atheist and eminent early computer scientist Joseph Weizenbaum who gave me the key to understanding so much about science and human thinking, that everything we take to be known is, in truth, a product of what we choose to believe, that there is no such a thing as knowledge that is not, early or late in its adoption, a product of our choice to actively believe what we are presented with.  It was that honest atheist who taught me to be unafraid of believing as opposed to what could safely be claimed to be known in the milieu of late 20th and early 21st century college-credentialed people.  Along with such honest atheists as Richard Lewontin, I'm entirely unafraid to be influenced by some of what such atheists say, when it makes abundant sense.  

But I can say that it wasn't until I read Luke Timothy Johnson that I really could believe in the Resurrection in the various ways in which it's described in the different Gospels and Epistles and in secondary literature up to and including those who write about it today - in all their seeming contradictions and disagreements.  

Reading and relying on the historical-critical practitioners who, as Johnson has pointed out, come up with their own scientific-historically produced "historical Jesuses" which are mutually inconsistent and contradictory, it would seem that that mock-scientific methodology produces less instead of more clarity.  In practical terms, none of their "Jesuses" is compelling or helpful, many of them are far less plausible than the far more coherent Jesus of the New Testament.   That is a consequence of pretending that historical methodology can produce the kind of consensus that only the most agreed to levels of science can sometimes achieve.  That's true of the highly verifiable field of chemistry, certainly and, to a lesser extent the ever more distant from physical proof branch, physics, but most true of all in mathematics which doesn't deal with physical objects, at all but can produce the most unassailable levels of proof in science.  I think that relationship of the highest level of proof and the fact that mathematical "objects" are not physical is of great significance and a strong refutation of materialism as a respectable ideology.

I believe in the Resurrection of Jesus now but not in any neat packaged description of it, not as merely the resuscitation of his body because that's not what any of the writers in the New Testament said it was.  Jesus had a body after he came to Glory (I think, Johnson is correct, John's Gospel might have used the best descriptive word for it) which was related to his body during his historical lifetime but it was not the same as it had been before.  The widely reported emptiness of his tomb, and we have testimony of that in both later to be considered "Christian" sources and extremely hostile sources rejecting the Resurrection, the Jerusalem establishment, that the tomb was found to be empty, may lead us to believe that the Resurrection body of Jesus included his physical body but I don't think that's something we can generally know.  The Gospels, themselves, say that his presence is through the Spirit and that his physical body needed to be absent before People could experience that.  It would be a phenomenon of which we have no precedent to lead to understanding it.  I choose to believe the evidence of those who experienced the Living Jesus after his death, those who knew him in life and those like Paul who certainly had a profound experience of Jesus as one of his most extreme enemies.  

There are two major and several minor things which led, ultimately, to me rejecting Crossan's presentation of this.  Him violating his own stated standards of judgement in terms of the dating of the sources and the need for agreement among independent sources to sustain any particular article of faith was first and foremost in rejecting his assertions about the corpse and Resurrection of Jesus.

His claim that the body of Jesus wasn't buried in a tomb but was thrown into a common grave to be dug up by wild dogs and eaten is his own invention from the late 20th century, nearly two-thousand years after any possible evidence about that could have been established is one of his chief violations of his stated standards.  His claims are opposed to the burial of Jesus in a tomb, which is multiply and independently attested in both Christian and anti-Christian sources close in time to the death of Jesus.  I'll say that again because it is typical of the revisionism that comes from the historical-critical practitioners.  It is based on exactly no contemporary evidence, whatsoever, it is contradicted by multiple, independent sources in the Scripture as well as that of those hostile to the claims of the Resurrection - as is documented in Matthew's Gospel.*  And that's only one example of where Crossan violates his own stated criteria.

His claim that the Resurrection was a metaphor for the memory of Jesus living on in those who knew him is, as well, attested in absolutely no place in the oldest of Christian literature.  The only claims made about that is that Jesus was and is actually living, in an actual bodily existence but much more than merely that, in every single case.  The widely spread claims about any "Jesus" centered community which held that Jesus was still dead and it was just the experience of his memory that "kept him alive" is evidenced in absolutely nothing but the many centuries after inventions of would-be historical-critical scholars who would seem to never apply historical-critical methods to their own claims and procedures.   

You, of course, don't have to believe those with the closest proximity to Jesus in time and place, either eye-witnesses to the Living Jesus or with first hand knowledge of those who said they did have such direct experience of it, but those are the most credible sources of evidence on which to build any such claims.  I find the various criteria of how we, today experience the Living Jesus which Johnson gives to be quite convincing, along with his descriptions of ways in which the Living Jesus surpasses the abilities of the historical Jesus (before his death) and the reasons that Jesus had to die to lead to his continued presence in history as the Living Jesus.  I find those convincing in ways that I don't find any of the historical-critical "Jesuses" to be convincing or at all helpful or because of that lack in the context in our lives, important.  I don't find Crossan's Jesus to even be very compelling.  I'm currently reading the letters and other writing of the martyred Sr. Ita Ford just now and I can't imagine her being motivated to do what she did for the least among the least in our hemisphere on the basis of Crossan's reconstructed, denatured "Jesus."  

My point is that whether it is the rigorous scientific demonstration of parapsycholgical phenomena or the obvious fact of climate-change or the truth of the Resurrection of Jesus, it comes down to what you choose to believe in the end.  That is true even when, in the case of the controlled, reviewed, published experimental research in the case of parapsychological phenomena, OR IN CLIMATE CHANGE SCIENCE, it is one of the champions of science denying both the extraordinary level of scientific practice followed AND THE TESTIMONY OF OUR OWN EXPERIENCED OBSERVATION.  

I think it's a lot more immediately dangerous for someone with Youtube and other influence to disbelieve the clear and present evidence of climate change than to either believe or disbelieve in the Resurrection of Jesus, at least for all practical political matters.  Though I think for egalitarian democracy, a disbelief in Jesus is as dangerous.

The motives for the determined refusal to look honestly at the more than a century of rigorous scientific research into parapsychology are clearly not scientific or in any way honest.  

Both issues are, actually relevant to the refusal to consider the possibility that the New Testament is reporting the truth of the Resurrection and continued life of the Glorified Jesus out of ideological motives.  In both cases it is a product of materialist-atheist-scientism, only such a refusal to look at the scientific evidence supporting the reality of psychic phenomena is as far from the honest practices of science as could be.  Such denial of strong scientific evidence should, rightly, be condemned.  As should the mixing of ideology with science.  Only when it's the ideology of materialist-atheist-scientism, there is no level of that being inserted into the very literature of science which is deemed impermissible in the mainstream of science.  I also recently listened to a Youtube of one of the most thoroughly ideological of scientists, the new-atheist crank and geneticist Jerry Coyne condemning that practice of mixing ideology with science when there is no one who does that more than he, himself does, not to be noticed doing it because his own ideology has been allowed to dominate the practice and publication of science.  

A consideration of the Resurrection of Jesus may well be held to be something that science is entirely incompetent to judge, since there is no way to scientifically verify or refute the proposition that Jesus is resurrected and lives in a state of Glory/  There is no way to make such a thing fit into the subject matter of science.  But there is an enormous literature of scientific experiment carried out over decades in several of the forbidden topics such as parapsychology.  Experimenters, taking the criticisms made of past experiments into account in further experiments, still showing very statistically significant results and with extensive replications verifying those results in many instances resulting in meta-analyses  showing spectacularly high rates of probability as against chance, in some experimental programs, surpassing some of the most celebrated verifications of modern physics.  I was hardly convinced of that before I went to the bother of looking into it, just as I believed other conventions of the modern common-received "knowledge" of the kind Hossenfelder promotes until I really looked at the claims made within the published literature of the field.  There was a time I bought the theory of natural selection as handed to me in science classes before I ever went to the bother of actually reading Darwin and the subsequent literature of the theory.  Now I can see there is absolutely no observational evidence that there is any such thing nor any that verifies it is the primary or exclusive force in driving evolution.  And the more I looked hard at what was claimed, the more obvious it became to me that it is nothing more than an ideologically supported convention required of those who are held to be respectable in science and outside of it.  The atheist Denis Noble has recently noted how he was encouraged to lie about what he and his fellow scientists are discovering which contradicts the neo-Darwinian synthesis which has dominated biology for the past seventy years, not on the basis of their findings and the consequences of those being false BUT BECAUSE HIS OPPONENTS DON'T LIKE WHATEVER THEOLOGICAL IMPLICATIONS CAN BE DRAWN FROM THEM.   Implications that any honest practice of science should not be in the business of considering in the articulation of science.  I think, far from Hossenfelder's claims in her recent Youtubes denying climate change science, it is her own ideology which is the driving force in so much of science and, especially, in that "public understanding of science" which Richard Dawkins, another of the foremost ideologues in neo-Darwinism and neo-eugenics and taboo science-denial, was given an Oxford seat in.  I think a lot of the millionaire-billionaire tech-bro sci-ranger activity of that kind is, actually, the promotion of such ideology which masquerades as science.  

I'd rather be honest than be considered respectable in that milieu.  I'd rather admit what I believe and the bases on which I believe what I do believe.  In the matter of climate change, I read the predictions and I saw those come true in the past fifty years.  In the matter of parapsychology, I read the literature and the mathematical analysis of that and if I want to hold that statistical evidence is a good way to find out the truth of things discernible in no other way, I must accept those.  Along with that I read the "skeptics" and found in every case I looked into, they were liars and hypocrites.  I came to the same conclusion about many of what I formerly took to be bright lights of that ideology the more I looked at what they claimed.   

My belief in the Living Jesus is based on a far different level of belief, though, if that is true then the Resurrection of Jesus is a plausible aspect of that, one which is attested in the best evidence of that available in literature.  I don't care if the likes of Hossenfelder or, on the low end of that, the guy who plays a genius on Brit TV and Youtube, Stephen Fry don't find that respectable.  I can live without their respect and I don't especially want it any more than I would that of James Randi or Jerry Coyne.  Nor do I care about the opinions of the dopes who troll me here except in so far as I can play off of them to write a post that I want to write and have a little fun at their expense.  Everyone has an opinion and, well you know what they say, generally, about those.

* I am not absolutely convinced but I think it's very probable that a good part of Matthew's Gospel, the "sayings" especially, may well be the product of the Matthew named as one of Jesus's Apostle as a number of classical commentators said.  Several of those living within a century of the assumed writing of that Gospel.  Several said that Matthew, aka Levi in Mark and Luke, the tax collector, wrote out the sayings of Jesus in "a dialect of Hebrew" probably in the Aramaic which was certainly Jesus's native language and that the Gospel of Matthew we have is a "translation" of those, almost certainly with expansions and commentary.  That it would be a confessed and despised tax collector among the followers of Jesus who wrote those down is credible in that a tax collector almost certainly was literate and likely was in the habit of writing in the course of their employment.  The modern fashion of claiming that Jesus, Paul, etc. were illiterate - something which the best nearly contemporary evidence of contradicts - is probably least credible in the figure of Levi-Matthew.  And it would be the most natural thing to imagine that a literate follower of Jesus would have written down what they remembered of what he said.  Though the testimony of Papias and Irenaeas that he wrote that in what they certainly meant as contemporary Aramaic and that "others translated as best they could" into Greek, then what has survived has only been the product of one or more of those translators who would make any stylistic discernment of different layers unlikely to impossible.  If Jesus and, or Paul were illiterate their intelligence could only be far higher than it might have been if they had recourse to reading and, especially, writing.  The Epistles considered by scholars to be "authentic" include works of the highest level of genius, Corinthians and, especially Romans, if composed in the mind alone and dictated to a secretary would mark those as among the most brilliant of documents.  I could imagine Paul producing a good draft and having someone with better handwriting making a clear copy for sending but I think Paul probably wrote the original down.   I'll insert something Michael Eric Dyson said nine years ago in regard to the decline of Cornel West:

The ecstasies of the spoken word, when scholarship is at stake, leave the deep reader and the long listener hungry for more. Writing is an often-painful task that can feel like the death of one’s past. Equally discomfiting is seeing one’s present commitments to truths crumble once one begins to tap away at the keyboard or scar the page with ink. Writing demands a different sort of apprenticeship to ideas than does speaking. It beckons one to revisit over an extended, or at least delayed, period the same material and to revise what one thinks. Revision is reading again and again what one writes so that one can think again and again about what one wants to say and in turn determine if better and deeper things can be said.

That would seem, to me, to be especially true of the most extensive of Paul's letters.  As to the startling content of the sayings of Jesus, I doubt those could have come from any but the most astute of minds, their seeming everydayness is a product of the culture that Jesus initiated in which much of the world has lived for the past two-thousand years.  

I can point out that all of those sources making claims about things such as the connection of Matthew to that Gospel and of an original by him in a "dialect of Hebrew" have a far closer proximity to the original than any modern scholar does,  It's probable that actual copies of the original document were available to those making that claim but which have not survived.  

Again, I think it's quite possible that a very early Greek  translator of such a list of sayings may well have fleshed it out with an editing and commentary of Mark's Gospel just as the author of Luke's Gospel may well have included both in the multiple sources overtly consulted by the author "Luke" to produce his works.  I would say the best evidence we have of that identifies both of the authors by name.  I don't know how you can find out more about that given the sources we have to claim to know such things about it but I'm willing to entertain the possibility that those like Papias and Ireanaeus had access to more knowledge of the facts of the matter than have survived in what records we have available.  If that is true the author of Matthew on many points may be, in fact, an eye-witness to Jesus as he was before and, by the testimony we have available to us, after his death.  I don't hold with the fashion of holding up any such evidence to an impossible level of verification which is practiced for no other topic in the study of literature and the relationship with reality in that time frame.   I doubt there is another area of study in which such an impossibly high level of study is applied to, especially one which is so rich in independent sourcing as the study of the New Testament and early Christianity.   While, especially Papias is known only through quotations from his work, he being such an early source and some of the later supposed quotations are questionable, that is the earliest evidence we have on some of those questions, certainly closer to the actual compositions of the Gospels than the often ideologically motivated claims of modern scholars, especially those since the 18th century. 

Friday, August 9, 2024

You're Forcing Me To Defend Robert Barron, You Bastard

Was Hoping I Was Done With This Stuff

I HAVE SAID that I like Keith Olbermann and respect him.  That is to say, on balance I like what of Keith Olbermann that I know.  I've never met him, I've never seen him in life, I've never talked to anyone who knows him, friend or foe.  What I know of him is what I used to see when his Countdown show was on MSNBC (which I rarely saw because it came after I stopped watching cable TV) and what I've heard of him online, first in the series of polemical attacks he made on the Trump regime many of which I posted here and in his revived Countdown which he produces himself, generally the first thing that comes up when I go on Youtube because I listen to it virtually every day it's put out.  One thing that could be said about my idea of Keith Olbermann is that my view of him isn't disinterested because it's based entirely on what he says and what he says about himself and his life (we both like dogs, a lot, for example) and what we agree on, most everything to do with politics.  And what we don't agree on I can take, his anti-religiosity and anti-Christianity most seriously, his love of Thurber, which I don't get at all and his focus on sports.  Though I've said he is about the only person who is a good enough writer and interesting enough so that he is the only commentator on sports who can get me to listen to an entire piece about it.  Of people I like in that kind of way, I like him very much.  

If someone wanted to mock my liking and respect for Keith Olbermann, they could truthfully point out that I don't really know anything "objective" about him, since just about everything I know about him comes from him. I suppose I could go look for what other people say about him, including those who have known him.  But I've never done that and don't really have much of an interest in doing that, I like his commentary enough and find he is honest enough about what I share a knowledge of with him that I don't want his personality, likeable enough but with definite prickles, to get in the way of enjoying listening to him.  I'm sure his enemies, many of whom he has known and worked with would say things about him that could impact that.  I've also admitted that finding out too much about some composers, musicians, writers, etc. have made it impossible for me to enjoy their work.  Considering how much of his podcast is devoted to telling tales of others in media who he has worked with, his criticism of them (many of whom I dislike or, like Rick Kaplan and Laura Ingraham, I detest) and his positive reporting of a few of them, that would probably be something that would be a fair point in evaluating my opinion of him.  I can say that some of those he slams or criticizes I like, too.  I don't feel obliged to dislike someone just because he had a run-in or two with them.

If someone wanted to go all late night college sophomore on me, they could point out that I have a pretty flimsy basis on which to base my opinion of Keith Olbermann on.  I've never seen him, I've never seen him within the milieu in which he lives, I've never verified much of anything he's said about himself and his life.  For all I "know" if by that you mean know in some pretended objective and disinterested way, the man I know as Keith Olbermann is an actor playing a part on TV as I suspect many of those in the media do.  Some of whom he and I share a disliking for.  For all I know all of them are playing who they are as "TV journalists"*.  For all I know Keith Olbermann is a TV character who transitioned into Youtube and other online formats and is as real as any other TV character.  If it wasn't for the fact that he can write well and uses the language very well and doesn't have tell-tale beats taken in his delivery, his most recent Youtubes could be AI generated.  

All of this is because someone mocked me over Olbermann's repeated ridicule of Christianity in his "Worst Persons In The World" segment yesterday.  He gave out his typical barroom atheist mythicist rant about the real existence of Jesus and the events in the Gospels during it.  I'll start with what set that off this time.

Olbermann belatedly slammed the critics of the Olympics opening show's clear mockery, not of "The Last Supper" but of Leonardo Da Vinci's famous and decayed fresco of it, with drag queens as Jesus and the Apostles and pagan content.  Making believe that what the director of the thing, Thomas Jolly obviously did, making a vulgar mockery of one of the central events in all four Gospels, wasn't what he clearly did is beneath Olbermann's level of honest reporting.  It was blatantly an obviously offensive presentation mocking that.  There is no other reasonable interpretation of it.  Jolly's defense of it in terms of a right to disbelief confirmed that was his clear intent, despite his ass covering denials.  That ass covering makes any assertion of its courageousness an empty gesture.

It was a spectacle intending to offend Christians in the most obvious of ways.  It couldn't be more obvious that that's what he and his colleagues did.  And it is as clear THAT HE DID IT WITH THE INTENTION OF OFFENDING MANY PEOPLE AND GETTING A REACTION FROM THEM.  He was probably counting on the Archibishop of Paris, among others, to express that offense.  THAT SUCH PEOPLE GAVE THE REACTION THAT WAS CLEARLY DESIRED IS HARDLY THEIR FAULT.  Nor was it unexpected.   No more than that the fashionable despisers of Christianity expressing their delight at the offensiveness to it intended to offend.  If those who were offended had done what would probably have been the wisest thing to do, brush it off as another pedestrian Parisian spectacle as meaningless as any such production number, none of the pretended counter-offense of the anti-Christians could have happened.  If they'd ignored it altogether Jolly and his colleagues would certainly have been upset instead of gratified by it.  If there is one thing that they didn't want, it was to have the let-down of their offensive tableau NOT GETTING THE REACTIONS IT DID.  Such show-biz types mount spectacles to get attention and if it hadn't they'd have been the most hurt of all.   There's nothing much more to it other than getting paid to do it.

That part of the effect desired by those producing such intentional offense, the part that Olbermann and his like played in reacting to the original offense taken, their pseudo-moralistic defense of the um. . . "art"  on the basis of "liberty," "freedom of expression," "free speech" and "artistic freedom" was the most over-blown part of it.  Well, who stopped them from doing any of it?  

What is the most developed view of this situation is the intense irony that those who slam the objectors to the spectacle on the bases of various "freedoms" is that they are objecting to the liberty, the freedom of expression, the free speech of those expressing their hurt and outrage.  OF ALL OF THOSE EXPRESSING OUTRAGE, THE ONES INTENTIONALLY OFFENDED ARE THE ONES WHO DIDN'T DO A THING TO CAUSE THIS TO HAPPEN.  Even if I disagree with them on extremely important things, even my own rights as an LGBTQ+ man and even as I dislike many of those who have expressed their outrage, their outrage was in response to something they didn't originate.  The hypocrisy of Jolly and his colleagues in pretending they didn't intend to do what they so obviously intended to do is exactly that, hypocrisy.  As is the hypocrisy of those who had Olbermann's reaction to that expression of being involuntarily offended, is that they're objecting to the free expression of that offense.  The whole thing, from start to finish reeks of hypocrisy on the part of those who provoked the offense and those who object to the expression of that offense.  Much as I dislike many of those who have expressed that offense - I pretty much detest the two American bishops named in that piece I wrote about it last week - them taking offense at what they found offensive is the most honest thing about it.

Considering what I said about the dynamics of Olbermann's beloved sports as an entertainment planned to make at least half of those doing it and at least half of those watching it unhappy - for him to slam those who were involuntarily made unhappy by an . . . um. . . "artistic" spectacle they had no foreknowledge would be presented to them expressing their unhappiness is especially odd.  Especially as it was done as a prelude to exactly that kind of sports spectacle in which those made happy or unhappy were expected to express their feelings, how can those expressing their offense at the opening show be offensive?   I wonder if Olbermann has ever expressed his dislike of a half-time show at a football game.  Many do to not much criticism.  What if it had been on the basis of right wing politics, insincere and hypocritical nationalism?  The kind of stuff put on by Olympics mounted within some of the worst dictatorships?   Would it be Ok to slam those or express offense on those bases or is that a wrong on the same basis as the outrage of the Archbishop of Paris is held to be a wrong? 

I have to say, I wasn't terribly offended by the spectacle, which, watching it after it happened, was among the most tediously predictable drag act I've ever seen.  I'm not a huge fan of the . . . um . . . art of drag but it's best when it's surprising and creative.   Which the Paris spectacle was not.  I generally find that modern French culture is a matter of presenting the most predictable and practiced and sterotypical content - people go there to study styles of clowning, for fucksake.  They pretended that Jerry Lewis was a comic genius because some idiot ersatz savant claimed him to be one.  It is entirely in service to whatever is in fashion at any given time.  That's typical of such show biz, everything from nightclub acts to stage presentations, TV shows and movies, no matter where those are produced.  It's typical of the kind of lit that gets on best sellers lists and mentioned on TV and radio shows.  It's very rare that any of it rises above or departs entirely from the recitation of conventional images, in this case the typical conventions of anti-Christian puerility.  I'll add that J. D. Vance's "hillbilly" shit was just a different topic and style of the same thing, otherwise it would never have been made into a movie.

Keith Olbermann taking the opportunity to throw more offense at Christians who were so offended  by claiming that the existence of Jesus and The Last Supper are not knowably historical is, of course, the focus of the first part of this post.  Any claim made about Jesus is demanded to present a level of "proof" that little else is demanded to.  Especially considering when he lived.  Jesus is probably the best documented peasant from antiquity and better documented than any number of well known figures in the ancient and classical world.  There are more independent sources of information about him than for Socrates for whom there are exactly three hardly disinterested sources, Sparticus who is known only through aristocratic Romans writing about him more than a century after his life.   I doubt there is any such a thing as a disinterested classical writer about any person or event.   All of them wrote out of an apriori point of view. 

Since I'm reading him right now, Luke Timothy Johnson has said that the existence of Jesus as a Jewish peasant from the first century, his death on the cross and the movement that arose immediately after his reported resurrection are facts of the highest historical probability.  LTK is someone who has devoted his academic career to the topic, he has the credentials to be taken credibly on the topic.  He lists other things about Jesus that are not as certain but are very well or less well evidenced.  Even atheists who specialize in the relevant fields such as Bart Ehrman hold that view of the historicity of Jesus, a couple of those with such credentials on the fringiest of fringes denying that high probability.  The same cannot be said about many people and events of the ancient and classical eras, though I've never heard anyone doubt that even the most developed stories about them are factual.  

Given the milieu in which Olbermann works and in which both of us live in 2024, how many English speaking People these days believe they know all about figures such as Sparticus, such as Caligula and Claudius when all they know they got second hand through a TV series made from the NOVELS by Robert Graves, or how many believe they know about Thomas More based on the movie The Man For All Seasons, what they know of the Scopes Trial on the grotesquely anti-historical Inherit The Wind?  Basing a knowledge of Jesus on the Gospels, Acts, and Epistles is practicing a heightened level of historical review from what I'd guess is typical in Olbermann's and my milieu.  I have, on occasion, heard Olbermann make the typical historical and other factual gaffs and errors common to our generation of college-credentialed people, maybe some of them gained currency through such show biz.  Maybe I'll start keeping a tab when I hear those, from now on.  I would welcome anyone finding any in what I write to point those out, after documenting that they are actually gaffs.  

I still like Olbermann and will listen to him on politics,** on the media, even on sports (though I cannot listen to Thurber even when he reads it) but on the topic of Christianity, I'll listen to those who have some basis higher than the village barroom atheist school of oratory, such as apparently ill-served Clarence Darrow when he unwisely debated G. K. Chesterton on the topic.  As I've noted here, even such a Christianity unfriendly organ as The Nation said that Chesterton knew what he was talking about and Darrow just repeated that kind of stuff as a boy would try to offend his pious aunt with.  I do thank Olbermann and whoever it was who mocked me over his commentary for making me think out the real nature of the Olympics opening brew-ha-ha even though it made me speak up for the likes of Bishop Barron and the Archbishop of Paris.  Most of those named among the complainers I don't like much at all, I'd rather not have to speak up for them.  Of all of those expressing disapproval in this matter, they were the ones least hypocritical about it.  I might like Olbermann better than them, but in this, they were more in the right than he is.  I just wish they'd ignored the stupid thing and it deflated like I hope Trump is.  

* Olbermann's observation on "TV journalism" that it's not journalism because it's all TV is one of the most valuable and succinct summations of what's wrong with it.  TV is all about getting ratings, reporting of facts coming well down in the list of its priorities.  My thought on that was that the more production involved in "journalism" the farther away from the reporting of facts.  So I've long distrusted TV "journalism" and "journalists" especially as the 24-7 format invented by Ted Turner took over and they flooded TV "journalism" with "opinion journalism" over the far more expensive and slow and risky reporting of verified fact.  And with the idiotic permission of the Supreme Court and the gutting of broadcast standards, the reporting of conjecture, polling and predictions.   

** Another thing, I suspect it's his unstated scientism that leads Olbermann to spend so much time on polling, which, if there's something obvious about it, it's highly unreliable pseudo-science of a particularly dishonest kind.  I think most of it is planned to get the results those commissioning the polls want.   I wish he'd spend less time on the polls which I find myself scrolling past.  I try to let the Youtube play through because I assume it's to his financial advantage but I'm pretty much past the point of tolerance over polls.