Friday, August 9, 2013

An Accusation of Serial Rape Is Too Serious To Turn It Into Vent-a-thon Porn

See updates below

In one of the most stunningly irresponsible blog posts I've ever seen, PZ Myers accused Michael Shermer of serial rape, naming him and giving what he says is part of the account given to him of a victim of the rape. I have no idea if the accusation is true or not but, either way, this belongs in the hands of a prosecutor or, at the very least, in the hands of a COMPETENT investigative reporter who could generate what Myers doesn't present, evidence to support the charge he made.   I have no idea if it is true or not and neither does anyone else but those making the accusation and Shermer.   Nothing has been proved, no evidence has been presented, only fragments of what Myers says is testimony.   All of this, so far, is based on Myers' say so.   And that isn't enough to know anything because he doesn't claim to have been a witness.  To increase the seriousness, the accusation is that he has raped many other women.

Myer's accusation was first published as a single allegation  he says is from a woman he says he knows, which may be entirely accurate or it may not be.  Later, after I briefly entered the discussion, he presented what he said was confirmation from another woman.  Both of the women are unnamed, neither of the statements I read were an entire document but were, apparently, edited by Myers.  One thing that all of us apart from the unnamed women knows, we don't know if what PZ posted was an accurate account of a crime or not.  But the person accused as a rapist is named.

If a charge of rape is true, the case should be given to the police or the prosecutor in the district where the crime was committed.  It is irresponsible to write a blog post about it before that is done.  Myers says that the woman making the accusation "reported it to an organization".

It’s been a few years, so no law agency is going to do anything about it now; she reported it to an organization at the time, and it was dismissed. Swept under the rug. Ignored.

Given how he phrased that, I gather the "organization" was not the police.  One of the problems is that Myers doesn't come out and say exactly what this means.   If the woman did give the information to the police, it's possible that they were negligent or it's possible her accusation couldn't be prosecuted.  We don't know because nothing is said about that.  If it's the case that the police were negligent then it is important for people reading his account to know that.  If that's the case, then their higher-ups should be made aware of the fact.  If the "organization" was not the police or prosecutor, then they should have had the account of the crime given to them.  An "organization" other than the police or the prosecutor's office can do nothing to bring justice in the matter.

An accusation made in such vague terms by an unnamed person against a named individual is extremely dangerous.  It could, conceivably, scotch a possible prosecution of a criminal or it could falsely destroy the life of an innocent person.   At this point, having gone this far, Myers owes it to Michael Shermer to reveal more about his accusation.   And, until the individuals who say they were attacked come forward, it is Myers who is making the accusation.   And he owes it to people who read him and, generally, to all of us.  If the women who are telling him this will not bring it to the police then there is nothing they can do about it, if they are not willing to do that they could bring it, as already noted, to a COMPETENT investigative reporter who will follow up their information to find corroborating accounts, testimony and evidence BEFORE PUBLISHING.   If the accusation is as old as Myers indicates, then all of that should have been done long before now, any possible future victims alerted by a legitimate criminal accusation or,  at the very least, a competently investigated and evidence based report in a reputable newspaper or magazine that passed by their editors and legal council.

No one is served by what Myers did except those of his fans who, by their disgusting behavior on his comment threads, prove that they are not interested in justice, they're interested in venting and posing and playing.   If Shermer is innocent, I hope he at least gets a cease and desist and gets Myers to stop doing this kind of thing.   If it were me, I'd be calling a good lawyer to bring a libel action against him.  If the accusations are true, that's an entirely different matter.  In that case I hope a prosecutor tells Myers to stop playing Grand Inquisitor and leave it to the professionals.  And then the professionals can deal with it professionally and responsibly.

I truly dislike Michael Shermer, I dislike his career and don't find him honest.  But I don't have to like him to know that no one should have to answer this kind of blog post and the jury of Myers' fan club which has already filled in for the lack of evidence and decided the case.  If he committed a crime, he has an absolute right to face his accusers in a court of law.  So would Meyers or the women who he says told him what he posted.  So would any of us accused of a very serious felony.   This isn't truth or dare, this isn't a game, it is entirely serious.

Update:  OK, as of now, this morning, the links seem to be working again.  

45 comments:

  1. "No one has been served by this . . ."

    Any woman who might otherwise not have her guard up around Shermer has been very well served by this. Ditto any woman who has already been assaulted by Shermer and was feeling too afraid to come forward. There, see, fixed that for you.

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  2. Well, if a man is guilty of serial rape, more women would be better served by having him successfully prosecuted and behind bars. Myers' hit-bait doesn't do that and could, conceivably, hinder that effort, leaving a serial rapist at liberty and, conceivably, feeling enabled. Of course if he is innocent, the supposition that your contention rests on isn't there. Meyers' post does nothing to support anything because he presents no evidence, only fragments of what he contends are testimony. His post is premature at the very best and irresponsible.

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  3. Any woman who might otherwise not have her guard up around Shermer has been very well served by this. Ditto any woman who has already been assaulted by Shermer and was feeling too afraid to come forward. There, see, fixed that for you.

    Conversely, especially if Shermer is innocent (not "not guilty," a legal distinction), then he's been libeled and may be treated as a rapist when he isn't even guilty of the tort (not crime) of assault (offensive contact, a much lower standard than most statutes require for criminal assault).

    How would that situation "fix" anything?

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  4. TTC, given that 6% of all rapists ever serve time, it would certainly be nice if they did all wind up behind bars, but it seems a pretty long odds. People have informally warned each other about wrongdoers for centuries, particularly in the absence of an effective justice system, which is certainly the case pertaining to rape.

    Rmj, what do you mean by being treated as a rapist? By whom? Will Shermer be locked up? The worst that might happen is that he could lose a few speaking engagements and get some side eye at conferences. The BEST that could happen is what WILL happen -- women will be on their guard around Shermer.

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  5. jfwlucy, I'm not talking about any other accusation of rape, I'm talking about one specifically made against Michael Shermer, the facts of that case are the only ones relevant to what I wrote. Or, as can be seen, the total lack of facts presented to back up the accusation.

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    1. TC, I get that. I am pointing out that, while it would be best for a rapist to be locked up, yes, the likelihood of actually getting one successfully prosecuted is very small. In the absence of an effective judicial system, a warning system about "men to avoid being alone with" has long been in place informally. Even _I_ had heard Shermer rumors, and I am hardly a conference goer.

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  6. Rmj, what do you mean by being treated as a rapist? By whom? Will Shermer be locked up? The worst that might happen is that he could lose a few speaking engagements and get some side eye at conferences. The BEST that could happen is what WILL happen -- women will be on their guard around Shermer.

    Based on what? Anonymous allegations that are completely unsubstantiated? And that's "justice"?

    It's not even ethical.

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  7. Rmj, what do you mean by being treated as a rapist? By whom? Will Shermer be locked up? The worst that might happen is that he could lose a few speaking engagements and get some side eye at conferences. The BEST that could happen is what WILL happen -- women will be on their guard around Shermer.

    In fact, let me get this straight: better someone be treated as a criminal based on nothing more than anonymous allegations in a blog post, better a legally innocent person suffer, and for what? Satisfaction? For what? I don't get it. Shermer is now guilty because a blog post says so?

    We don' need no steenkin' badges! We don't even need a steenkin' justice system! Gossip, especially anonymous gossip, is enough to prove someone guilty! Verdict first, trial...who needs a trial?

    I don't care if Michael Shermer is the second coming of Hitler, this is reprehensible and inexcusable.

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  8. Rmj, first, victim testimony IS evidence, particularly in cases where physical evidence is lacking. The question becomes, how credible is the testimony? To you, not much, and that is fine. The person is unknown to you. But she is a known quantity to PZ Myers. He believes her. PZ Myers is a known quantity to me and I trust him for a variety of reasons. I believe him. You don't. Again, that is fine. But the object of PZ Myers's post is not to convince you. Nor is it to get Shermer locked up. His stated purpose is to get the word out there that he thinks there is good reason to believe Shermer is a sexual predator.

    Let me ask you this -- given that there are substantial social and psychological costs to reporting a rape, that police are very often indifferent or hostile to rape victims, particularly if the victims were drinking, and that the victim is highly likely to be questioned or disbelieved, what process do YOU think the victim should have followed? How about PZ? What if a female friend of yours came to you with a similar story, and you believed her, and you knew Shermer were speaking in your town next weekend? I'm very, very seriously and politely asking what you would do?

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  9. Rmj, first, victim testimony IS evidence, particularly in cases where physical evidence is lacking. The question becomes, how credible is the testimony? To you, not much, and that is fine. The person is unknown to you. But she is a known quantity to PZ Myers. He believes her. PZ Myers is a known quantity to me and I trust him for a variety of reasons. I believe him. You don't. Again, that is fine. But the object of PZ Myers's post is not to convince you. Nor is it to get Shermer locked up. His stated purpose is to get the word out there that he thinks there is good reason to believe Shermer is a sexual predator.

    "Testimony" is a legal term. It is a statement made under oath, subject to cross examination and the rules of evidence. It is not anonymous, faceless, and published on a blog.

    I don't know PZ Meyers from Adam, and have no reason to accept his statements as valid. I certainly don't know who the anonymous accuser is, nor do I have any reason to accept "her" statements as valid. This is not testimony, it is idle gossip.

    His stated purpose is to get the word out there that he thinks there is good reason to believe Shermer is a sexual predator.

    And if Meyers is wrong, he's guilty of libel. Do two wrongs somehow make a right in your ethical system?

    Let me ask you this -- given that there are substantial social and psychological costs to reporting a rape, that police are very often indifferent or hostile to rape victims, particularly if the victims were drinking, and that the victim is highly likely to be questioned or disbelieved, what process do YOU think the victim should have followed? How about PZ?

    I should think that was perfectly clear. The "victim" here may, or may not, have suffered a criminal act. I don't know, and neither do you. You just assume it is true because you read a blog post. Do I think baseless gossip should be repeated and people scorned and branded a "rapist" on that basis? Of course not. Rape is a serious crime, but innocence is serious, too. Until evidence is put forth in a court of competent jurisdiction, allegations of a serious crime are merely that: allegations. But allegations can become libel.

    And so far, all I've seen is libel. Is Mr. Shermer guilty? I don't know. But he's innocent until proven guilty by something other than internet gossip.

    As to your hypothetical: I'd tell my friend to stay away from Mr. Shermer. I would not publicly accuse him of a serious crime based on the statement of my friend.

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  10. His stated purpose is to get the word out there that he thinks there is good reason to believe Shermer is a sexual predator.

    And if I have good reason to believe (interesting choice of words, that) that you are a sexual predator, would it be okay for me to publish a blog post saying so?

    I have as much evidence to present as Mr. Meyers. I can even claim I got the information from a friend who wants to remain anonymous, but whom I trust implicitly. Would that make it okay? I mean, it is a claim of rape, and so many rapists just get away with it....

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  11. As for my hypothetical, you misread it. Your friend has already been raped. You believe her. You now know Shermer will be speaking tonight at a reception where there will be a lot of free alcohol and young female undergraduates. What do you do? What is the right thing to do?

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    1. I told you. I understood it perfectly.

      I am not the guardian of the world. Lots of potential rapists out there, lots of free alcohol, lots of young female undergraduates. Oddly, I don't feel responsibility for the safety of everyone of them.

      Especially not based on a groundless accusation which I cannot prove.

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    2. Again you are willfully MISREADING my hypothetical. You KNOW THE STATEMENT TO BE TRUE. It is coming from a female friend that you believe absolutely. What do you do?

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    3. No, I'm not. You want me to respond as you would, and, surprise! there are other opinions about the correct response available to me.

      The statement could be coming from my adult daughter, and I'd still respond in the same way. I'm sorry you find that unfathomable, but there are clearly more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your particular philosophy.

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    4. I'm sorry you seem unable to be civil and calm in your oh, so slashing rhetoric. I have not been rude or sarcastic to you.

      Okay, so clearly, you DO think it is more important to protect the reputation a single person whom you know to be a sexual predator than to warn multiple other persons that they might be assaulted by this person.

      You are totally okay with the likelihood that more women will be raped by this man. Because it is more important that his reputation not be called into question than for them to be safe.

      Got it.





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    5. Slashing? I haven't started to slash.

      You'll know when I do.

      I'm quite serious in my response to your hypothetical. There are a multitude of responses, and not all of them take responsibility for possible crimes by possible people. I might as well assume all men are rapists, and warn my daughter and her friends away from all of them. After all, it's the only way to be sure.

      You assume Shermer has raped someone. That assumption is based on a blog post, nothing more. If that's the only standard of proof you need, you are going to live your life afraid of most of the human race, and convinced you are saving people from them.

      Nothing I can do about that, either.

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    6. You really do seem unable to answer this question.

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    7. You really do seem unable to answer this question.

      No, you want there to be only one answer.

      But I'm not painting a floor, and this isn't a corner. Nor have you sliced this situation so thinly it only has one side. You continue to think you have, but there's nothing I can do about that.

      And I haven't shouted, yet.

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  12. And yes, absolutely, if you genuinely believed I were a sexual predator you would be doing the right thing by warning others.

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    1. But what if you were not a sexual predator and a blog read by thousands of people said you were?

      I'd advise everyone to not get drunk, especially young undergrads who would be beneath the legal age to drink here. Of both genders. But it's my impression that these women were supposed to be quite a bit older than under grads. Adults should know better than to get drunk. I will repost an old post on that topic, now that you've brought it up.

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    2. If you are, I'm right. If you aren't?

      Your sense of morality and justice is too simplistic to survive contact with reality.

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    3. But what if you were not a sexual predator and a blog read by thousands of people said you were?

      Yes, exactly right. If Shermer is innocent, then publishing a rape accusation in a popular blog is a terrible thing.

      On the other hand, if Shermer is a rapist, then NOT publishing the rape account could lead to a woman or women getting raped, who otherwise would not have been raped. That is also a terrible thing.

      I can understand being concerned about both of these terrible things. I can't understand being concerned only with one of the two terrible things, however.

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    4. On the other hand, if Shermer is a rapist, then NOT publishing the rape account could lead to a woman or women getting raped, who otherwise would not have been raped. That is also a terrible thing.

      You assume, as the lawyers like to say, facts not in evidence.

      You assume a simple moral universe in which good intentions always lead to good results, and cannot do otherwise. And if they don't, well: they can't, because the allegation always protects a new potential victim, because, after all, he's guilty of the accusation. And if he isn't?

      Better to act as if he is, in order to protect a hypothetical.

      It's an indefensible position. Surely you see that.

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  13. That could happen, but RMJ's question presupposed that he would be accusing me in good faith. Again, if I were a sexual predator, it would be correct to out me.

    So that is what you would limit your advice to, a blanket "don't get drunk" warning?

    Just to be clear -- you would definitely prioritize an individual (whom you KNOW to be an active sexual predator) and his reputation over the safety of any women who might be attending the reception? Even if you KNOW that this person is a sexual predator, you would sit on this information because if a person gets drunk, it's all her fault?

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  14. That could happen, but RMJ's question presupposed that he would be accusing me in good faith. Again, if I were a sexual predator, it would be correct to out me.

    So that is what you would limit your advice to, a blanket "don't get drunk" warning?

    Just to be clear -- you would definitely prioritize an individual (whom you KNOW to be an active sexual predator) and his reputation over the safety of any women who might be attending the reception? Even if you KNOW that this person is a sexual predator, you would sit on this information because if a person gets drunk, it's all her fault?

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  15. That could happen, but RMJ's question presupposed that he would be accusing me in good faith.

    Actually it didn't. I don't know that Meyers is acting in good faith. I don't know the man, but I know enough about human beings to know that "good faith" can be as much a delusion as the products of paranoid schizophrenia. And even "good faith" can be groundless and libellous.

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    1. Your words: "And if I have GOOD REASON TO BELIEVE (interesting choice of words, that) that you are a sexual predator, would it be okay for me to publish a blog post saying so?"

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    2. What constitutes "good reason"? You seem to think it's an objective standard verifiable by empirical examination.

      I have known people to act on what they are sure is "good reasons" and do heinous things. The post by Meyers is a case in point. He thinks he has good reasons, but such an accusation needs more than "Sounds good to me!" to be published.

      One person's "good reason" can be, in fact, erroneous; or even malicious. I've known lots of people to act out of malice and call it a "good reason" to do so. I can, for example, decide from this comment section that I have "good reason" to call you a sexual predator.

      Apparently that would be okay, then. Wow. Just: wow. Not sure how many people I would be saving, but apparently that doesn't matter. It's only the thought that counts; grounds for such an accusation are wholly irrelevant. All I need is to "believe" I have a "good reason."

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    3. Having a good reason, and "having good reason to believe" are not the same thing.

      In any case, I am only interested now in ascertaining your response to my hypothetical above.

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    4. Having a good reason, and "having good reason to believe" are not the same thing.

      You seem to think they are, because that's the language I originally used: "a good reason to believe."

      You can check that, if you like.

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  16. I should add that "good faith" is not an excuse for libeling someone. You may speak or write in good faith, but you have a responsibility for verifying what you say, especially if the statement accuses someone of a crime involving moral turpitude (basically a felony, but that certainly includes rape). To say you were only passing on what someone said to you and you believed it, is no defense.

    You have an obligation not to merely be a mindless gossip, especially when you publish such allegations on a widely read blog.

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    1. A journalist has responsibility for verifying facts. A private citizen does not. In any case, I am only interested now in ascertaining your response to my hypothetical above.

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  17. A journalist has responsibility for verifying facts. A private citizen does not. In any case, I am only interested now in ascertaining your response to my hypothetical above.

    If he publishes his remarks, a private citizen as a responsibility for verifying facts, too. It's called libel: I've been discussing it endlessly here.

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  18. No, I'm sorry, you are wrong. Since you don't seem to see what I have been writing, I'll repeat it here just to make sure:

    Okay, so clearly, you DO think it is more important to protect the reputation a single person whom you know to be a sexual predator than to warn multiple other persons that they might be assaulted by this person.

    You are totally okay with the likelihood that more women will be raped by this man. Because it is more important that his reputation not be called into question than for them to be safe.

    THIS IS ABSOLUTELY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?

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  19. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?

    No. I'm saying the basis for you claim that this man is a rapist is a blog post.

    That's a pretty weak reed to put so much burden on.

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    1. But that is absolutely what your statements above imply.

      Even if the reporter to you of sexual victimization was your adult daughter whom you believe implicitly, you would choose NOT to warn women whom you knew would be in close contact with Shermer that evening because the facts have not been proven in a court of law.

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    2. Alas. You have my sincere pity.

      Farewell.

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    3. Well, as I said originally:

      I am not the guardian of the world. Lots of potential rapists out there, lots of free alcohol, lots of young female undergraduates. Oddly, I don't feel responsibility for the safety of everyone of them.

      I knew what I was saying, and I meant it. I've met enough people who imagine the world is their responsibility; I'm quite tired of them. Like Candide, I've learned to tend my own garden.

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  20. And yet, you seem terribly concerned for Shermer's reputation, and you're coming off as angry that anyone would besmirch his rep. What makes you the guardian of Shermer?

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    1. You have to beware of reading into posts things that aren't there. My anger is non-existent, except in your presumption. If I have any interest in this discussion, it is in the proper use of reason.

      I've had too much experience with people insisting their version of reality is the only one possible, and their limited knowledge is all they need to reach a conclusion.

      I don't know Shermer from Adam's off aunt, and don't know if he is guilty of a serious crime like rape or not. Neither do you. Neither does anybody, since he hasn't been charged with that crime and tried for it. It's as simple as that. I don't care to "guard" Shermer. But neither do I care for idle gossip.

      I've seen it destroy people I know. And I find the refusal to reason, to consider alternatives, to allow for a more complex moral universe than the simple one some prefer, well...indefensible.

      Angry? Hardly.

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  21. Interestingly, the "pro-publication" argument here boils down to punishment.

    If someone is guilty of a crime, the purpose of a criminal trial is not to identify them as the criminal, it is to get to the punishment. Obviously they are already a criminal, someone said so. The mere allegation is sufficient to move on to the question of punishment.

    If they are not convicted in a court of law, or ever even taken there, they still deserve to wear a scarlet letter, and it is the duty of the community receiving the allegation to burn that letter into the flesh of the accused, lest it ever be removed. Without the letter, where is the punishment?

    So we don't need a system of assessment of facts, a system that takes into account contrary statements, alternative narratives, cross-examination of witnesses, weighing and assessment and examination of evidence: we just need a system that makes sure the accused are punished.

    And I'm the one who's angry?

    Seriously?

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  22. Barry Deutsch, you don't have to like someone to want justice to be done to them. If Shermer is innocent of a crime as serious as serial rape, as he as the right to be presumed to be until he is found guilty to be in a real court case, then what Myers' did is damaging to him and his readers who he has misled. If he is guilty of all or part of what Myers alleges then he has likely damaged any future prosecution. In any case he has made the already far too irresponsible blogosphere even more irresponsible by his post.

    I'm not an admirer of Michael Shermer but if we only cared about fairness to people we liked then fairness would be even rarer than it is today.

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  23. And the winner is...RMJ, by a landslide!

    I am truly shocked by the arguments against RMJ's reasoning. Very, very scary....

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