tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4764506766343254616.post3487367844758664188..comments2024-03-26T14:20:38.103-04:00Comments on The Thought Criminal: Pistévomen eis éna Theón Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4764506766343254616.post-50868949992199627972016-12-14T11:36:47.076-05:002016-12-14T11:36:47.076-05:00"I am challenged to say
if I believe that Jes...<br /><br />"I am challenged to say<br />if I believe that Jesus was born of a virgin by the power of the Holy<br />Spirit, in the mocking way of anti-Christians and atheists. To which<br />the short answer is, I don't know, I wasn't there, I can't help feel<br />it's none of my business."<br /><br /><br />It's none of your business?<br />So you're actually an agnostic? Who knew?<br />steve simelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13247393763004076992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4764506766343254616.post-88640315465112167692016-12-13T21:05:39.606-05:002016-12-13T21:05:39.606-05:00Christianity has decided the fundamentals are: ba...Christianity has decided the fundamentals are: baptism in the name of the Trinity (Creator, Christ, and Holy Spirit); communion as a sacrament; and acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior (what that means is, really, up to the individual).<br /><br />The rest is negotiable, or negligible, depending on your point of view. So arguments about virgin births and moving stars are all really beside the point; but the unknowing like to think that is the stone we all stumble over (what the stone is varying, of course).<br /><br />I agree with you: it has much more to do with action than with idea, with behavior than intent, activity over ideology. "Atheists" who want to argue, want to argue ideology, which they think is theology.<br /><br />It's so irrelevant it seems almost more polite to ignore them.Rmjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06811456254443706479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4764506766343254616.post-70509761241542722182016-12-13T19:08:33.169-05:002016-12-13T19:08:33.169-05:00I think it's something I'll continue to ta...I think it's something I'll continue to table, though the history of the idea is interesting. <br /><br />I will admit that a lot of the stuff in even the Cappadocians doesn't seem to me to be especially relevant to what seems important, though it obviously was to people at the time. I do wonder how much of that came from their continuing interaction with the still living pagan philosophical tradition and their need to have philosophical credibility with people trained in that tradition. <br /><br />Those people, right on the edge of the end of the persecution and the domination of Christianity are interesting in that light. The family of Gregory was the first generation to come after the end of the persecution, his grandparents had experienced it, St. Macrina the Elder and her husband had. I'm not sure about his, Macrina the Younger and Basil's parents. <br /><br />I'm not entirely sure that any of that really matters. Jesus didn't seem to be all that concerned about whether or not virginity was that big an issue. Today's lectionary has his remarks about prostitutes and tax collectors entering in the kingdom. <br /><br />So much I wish I'd done decades ago but I got hoodwinked by the 18th century. The Thought Criminalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01381376556757084468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4764506766343254616.post-68134757698162706022016-12-13T14:08:37.689-05:002016-12-13T14:08:37.689-05:00Well, the original Hebrew of Isaiah is "young...Well, the original Hebrew of Isaiah is "young girl," meaning a new generation, that the Messiah would come in the future, and Israel would still be around. It's a message from the Babylonian Exile, in other words, not a prophecy aimed at Bethlehem in a year certain.<br /><br />Matthew picks it up because he's (probably more than one author, actually, but tradition) grabbing at every scriptural source he can to legitimate the claims of Christians about Jesus of Nazareth. The interesting issue is how the nativity stories actually elevate women: Gabriel comes to Mary in Luke (Joseph is invisible there, and silent in both gospels), and in both Jesus is human because of Mary, but of God because of God. I should explore how Augustine buried that sometimes (if he did).<br /><br />We really need to ponder Sojourner Truth's words that "Man had nothin' to do with it!", regarding the nativity.<br /><br />Is it critical that Jesus's mother be a virgin? It is if you think original sin is procreated by procreation. If you don't think that, then the virginity of Mary becomes rather superfluous, and besides: her virginity is a Catholic doctrine, not a Christian one. Yes, most Christians accept Matthew's "virgin" (from the KJV, a bad translation and a word with a different meaning in the 17th century than it has in the 21st), but only Catholics have a doctrine that she stayed "pure" the rest of her life.<br /><br />The bigger problem is that: who does sin enter us? Or: is "original sin" really all that important a concept? As you say, reconciling Hebraic thought to Hellenistic, seems less and less useful an effort (a project of modern Continental philosophy, interestingly enough; or at least made more possible because of it).Rmjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06811456254443706479noreply@blogger.com